From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 3 10:31:56 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA05989 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:31:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: mdmiller@209.197.224.10 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:17:36 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: mdmiller@fastlane.net Subject: [tacgps] Heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000703101549.00c57a50@209.197.224.10> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where I can purchase a heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2? 73 Mark N5RFX --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 3 10:40:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA08099 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:40:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Kirby, Brian" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:33:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFE503.F87B9718" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFE503.F87B9718 Content-Type: text/plain try: http://www.lehmanscientific.com/ . He sells the units, but he may have a bad one or two..... > ---------- > From: mdmiller@fastlane.net[SMTP:mdmiller@fastlane.net] > Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 10:17 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2 > > Does anyone know where I can purchase a heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2? > > 73 > Mark > N5RFX > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFE503.F87B9718 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2

try:  http://www.lehmanscientific.com/  .  He = sells the units, but he may have a bad one or two.....

    ----------
    From:   = mdmiller@fastlane.net[SMTP:mdmiller@fastlane.net]
    Reply To: =       TAPR Special Interest Group
    Sent:   = Monday, July 03, 2000 10:17 = AM
    To: =     TAPR Special = Interest Group
    Subject: =        [tacgps] Heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2

    Does anyone know where I can purchase = a heatsink for Ball Efratom FRK-C2?

    73
    Mark
    N5RFX


    ---
    You are currently subscribed to = tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov
    To unsubscribe send a blank email to = leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFE503.F87B9718-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 4 21:24:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA11543 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 21:24:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 22:23:24 -0400 From: GS Organization: bigfoot.com X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: RE:Single Antenna Multiple Receivers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <39629C1C.66EF295A@bigfoot.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jim Korenz wrote: > > Hi All, > I have been using the RCA DSS splitter model D800 > from Radio Shack. The freq range is listed as 40-2150 > MHz and it includes the steering diodes to power the > GPS antenna. I think it costs about $12. It has 3 "F" > connectors and is 75 ohms, but I use 3 BNC to "F" > adapters and have had no problems. I have the older > Motorola "hockey puck" antenna with about 30 feet of > RG-58 through the basement window. I have run a VP as > the DGPS ref station and have used a VP, GPS III, and > Magellan XL as rovers. The only problem with this > arrangement is that the highest voltage will power the > antenna. If your receiver senses current, none of mine > did, it may complain. > Jim Korenz N8PXW I realize that I'm replying to a message that's over two month's old - what can I say - I'm slow! I (finally) got one of the RCA DSS splitters and amp at RS, and it works well with my M12, but when I try to use it with both the M12 and my shiny new Garmin eMap, the eMap doesn't seem to want to utilize it. Does anybody know if the eMap needs to see current flow on the antenna cable to force it to switch from the internal antenna? When I initially connected it to the splitter and M12, I thought it wasn't doing too badly - I saw three or four sats. Then, I disconnected the RG174 from the splitter, and STILL saw the same sats with the end of the 174 dangling in midair! Either the eMap's internal patch is still working when the RG174 is connected but unterminated in a proper antenna, or I've hit upon the GPS version of tin foil on the rabbit ears. (Actually, I verified that the eMap's patch is still active by covering it with my hand.) Any thoughts on how I can fake the eMap into seeing the external splitter/amp/antenna? Preferably cheaply :-) Gary Sanders WB0BZR --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 5 00:11:37 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA13882 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 00:11:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: davem@mail.cs.ubc.ca Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 22:11:48 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Dave Martindale Subject: [tacgps] Re:Single Antenna Multiple Receivers In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000704221148.0080be40@mail.cs.ubc.ca> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >I (finally) got one of the RCA DSS splitters and amp >at RS, and it works well with my M12, but when I try to >use it with both the M12 and my shiny new Garmin eMap, >the eMap doesn't seem to want to utilize it. Does anybody >know if the eMap needs to see current flow on the antenna >cable to force it to switch from the internal antenna? The eMap is almost certainly the same as the 12XL: it senses current drawn from the antenna jack to operate an internal switch that selects between the internal antenna and the external jack. Connect a passive antenna (no current drawn) or a DC-blocked signal splitter, and the GPS simply ignores the external signal. To fix this, you simply have to draw sufficient current from the antenna jack - 5 mA seems sufficient for modern Garmins, but some of the really early 12XLs (I had one) needed closer to 10 mA. If your antenna will operate from 2.5 V, the simplest thing is to just use the eMap as the power source for it by connecting the eMap to a splitter port with a DC connection to the antenna, and connect the M12 to a DC-isolated port. Failing that, connect about 500 ohms of resistance between signal and shield somewhere between the splitter and the eMap. That should draw enough current even at 2.5 V to activate the switch, without loading the RF signal significantly. Dave --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 5 12:10:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA21487 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:10:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:9:26 Subject: [tacgps] GravNav Lite To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Brian Kirby" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk Anybody have any experience or comments on using GravNav Lite with the Oncore VP ? --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 5 15:58:20 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA06938 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:58:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 16:57:24 -0400 From: GS Organization: bigfoot.com X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re:Single Antenna Multiple Receivers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3963A134.E3173C5A@bigfoot.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dave Martindale wrote: > > If your antenna will operate from 2.5 V, the simplest thing is to > just use the eMap as the power source for it by connecting the eMap > to a splitter port with a DC connection to the antenna, and connect > the M12 to a DC-isolated port. > > Failing that, connect about 500 ohms of resistance between signal and > shield somewhere between the splitter and the eMap. That should draw > enough current even at 2.5 V to activate the switch, without loading > the RF signal significantly. I got it working.... Unfortunately, the external antenna didn't like the 2.5 volts from the eMap, so I went the resistor route. I simply added a BNC T connector between the splitter output and the eMap, and added a 510 ohm termination to one leg of the T. It seems to work great, with reasonable signal strength on the GPS Data screen of the eMap, and it sees all the sats that the M12 is seeing. Thanks much for the suggestion. Gary Sanders WB0BZR --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 6 04:31:06 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id EAA21374 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 04:31:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 02:29:10 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [tacgps] GPS Antenna Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000706022743.00c511e0@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I have seen articles about home brewing GPS flat plate antennas, but can't finf the pointer right now. Can anybody here recall any? --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 6 11:56:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA16117 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:56:40 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: kc5ejk@mailhost.onramp.net Message-Id: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:57:01 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Robert Winingham Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >I have seen articles about home brewing GPS flat plate antennas, but can't finf the pointer right now. >Can anybody here recall any? > Don't forget this list like several others is available at www.tapr.org and the archives are searchable. I searched the archives and got several hits on the word PATCH here is one ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:11:30 -0400 From: SCHULTZ@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" CC: SCHULTZ@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: [tacgps] New Dielectric Patch Antenna at Digikey List-Owner: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <990721211130.30e@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV> Sender: bounce-tacgps-5723@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Status: RO Just got the new Digikey catalog. On page 292 they have a Dielectric Patch antenna from Toko, for GPS. Resonates at 1580.5 MHz, frequency shifts 5 MHz lower with a radome. Measures about 1 inch square. Part Number TK5150-ND, price $17.33 Dan Schultz N8FGV --------------------------------------------------------------- 73 -- ----- kc5ejk@onramp.net or kc5ejk@amsat.org ----- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 6 12:27:15 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA22871 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:27:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: davem@mail.cs.ubc.ca Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:26:21 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Dave Martindale Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antenna In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000706102621.007fa1e0@mail.cs.ubc.ca> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Another source: there's an article in the October 1995 QST magazine (page 44) that describes how to make a patch antenna from sheet metal and nylon spacers. This is a passive antenna. I've also heard about someone starting with this design, but using PC board material instead of sheet metal for the ground plane. The upper side of the PC board was left as continuous copper, to perform as a ground plane for the antenna, while the underside of the PC board carried a preamp consisting of a modular 50 ohm preamp device (e.g. one of the MAR series) plus whatever resistors and capacitors were needed for biasing it. Another possibility, though not a patch: Somewhere in the archives of this list you should find a description of a 2-turn helix antenna wound on a yoghurt container with an active preamp. Dave --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 6 16:10:58 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA10094 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:10:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: Mastenbrook Gary-G13216 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antenna & more... Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:10:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <7195C03599D9D311BE580008C75697EB0A636C@il33exm01.wes.mot.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Seeing this post reminds me that I have some of these antennas too. (Maybe two or three boxes if I remember right.) They are new-old stock and I've been selling a pair of them for $10.00 (+ $3.00 S/H USPS priority mail). >From the home webpage: http://www.qsl.net/n8dmt/extras1.html NEW/Surplus GPS Patch Antennas (non-amplified). These are approx. 1" square ceramic patches with a ground plane on the back with a small pin protruding out of the back side for your coaxial cable attachment. These are "raw" antennas ready for your housing and pre-amplifier (as needed). Quantity available. I've used them mounted on a 2" square groundplane without the preamplifier for short cable runs. As stated by digikey, a cover dielectric is used to tune the patch to the correct frequency. Just vary the height between the patch and the cover until the receiver signal strength peaks. Having taken apart an Antenna97 recently, I was amazed at how similar these surplus patches looked to the one in this $50 antenna... These are quite popular at hamfests given the increased interest in APRS and GPS systems. I still have quite a few available if anyone's interested. (Just don't make it to enough hamfests to clean out the boxes, I guess... :o) Please email me at n8dmt@home.com for further passive patch information or to request a pair-o-patches be sent to you. Please do not reply back to the list with an order request. Thanks! ALSO: If list readers are interested in other GPS goodies, please drop me an email at n8dmt@home.com. I'll be cleaning out the shack at some point this month and should find some extra UT's, GT's and old/new style antennas. Once I know what you're looking for, I'll put together a list of who-wants-what and contact you first-come, first served after the 'great clean-up' is over. Prices will be very reasonable (always sell out at Dayton--but didn't go this year). Thank you. 73's Gary N8DMT -----Original Message----- From: Robert Winingham [mailto:kc5ejk@onramp.net] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 11:57 AM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antenna >I have seen articles about home brewing GPS flat plate antennas, but can't find the pointer right now. >Can anybody here recall any? > Don't forget this list like several others is available at www.tapr.org and the archives are searchable. I searched the archives and got several hits on the word PATCH here is one ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:11:30 -0400 From: SCHULTZ@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" CC: SCHULTZ@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: [tacgps] New Dielectric Patch Antenna at Digikey List-Owner: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <990721211130.30e@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV> Sender: bounce-tacgps-5723@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Status: RO Just got the new Digikey catalog. On page 292 they have a Dielectric Patch antenna from Toko, for GPS. Resonates at 1580.5 MHz, frequency shifts 5 MHz lower with a radome. Measures about 1 inch square. Part Number TK5150-ND, price $17.33 Dan Schultz N8FGV --------------------------------------------------------------- 73 -- ----- kc5ejk@onramp.net or kc5ejk@amsat.org ----- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Jul 7 04:03:21 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id EAA19867 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 04:03:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 02:01:53 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [tacgps] Patch Antennas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_45578000==_.ALT" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000707012852.00c8b980@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk --=====================_45578000==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Oct 95 - I think that was the one I was remembering. Thanks. I just read the article off the CDROM (great idea, these magazine archives on CD). Excellent! But now I want to find a book! Anybody have Antenna Design Using Personal Computers by David M. Pozar, (Dedham, MA: Artech House, Inc, 1985) which is referenced in the QST article? Or the software that came with it? Amazon says it is out of print (figures). Or can anybody recommend a better book? And thanks for all the other responses. 73 de KN6TD (s) Derek --=====================_45578000==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Oct 95 - I think that was the one I was remembering.
Thanks.

I just read the article off the CDROM (great idea, these magazine archives on CD).

Excellent!

But now I want to find a book!

Anybody have Antenna Design Using Personal Computers by David M. Pozar, (Dedham, MA: Artech House, Inc, 1985)  which is referenced in the QST article?

Or the software that came with it?

Amazon says it is out of print (figures).

Or can anybody recommend a better book?

And thanks for all the other responses.

73 de KN6TD
(s) Derek

--=====================_45578000==_.ALT-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jul 8 13:15:43 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA27193 for ; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 13:15:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Gregory Beat" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Oncore UT Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 13:15:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <008001bfe908$6e114920$6e938318@ce.mediaone.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Gary - As you are looking trhough the surplus ....if you've got a spare Oncore UT, and new style antenna .... I can replace my current VP used with TAC-2 and move it onto the new project ! GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mastenbrook Gary-G13216" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 4:10 PM Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antenna & more... > Seeing this post reminds me that I have some of these antennas too. (Maybe > two or three boxes if I remember right.) They are new-old stock and I've > been selling a pair of them for $10.00 (+ $3.00 S/H USPS priority mail). > > > From the home webpage: http://www.qsl.net/n8dmt/extras1.html > > NEW/Surplus GPS Patch Antennas (non-amplified). These are approx. 1" > square ceramic patches with a ground plane on the back with a small pin > protruding out of the back side for your coaxial cable attachment. These > are "raw" antennas ready for your housing and pre-amplifier (as needed). > Quantity available. > > > I've used them mounted on a 2" square groundplane without the preamplifier > for short cable runs. As stated by digikey, a cover dielectric is used to > tune the patch to the correct frequency. Just vary the height between the > patch and the cover until the receiver signal strength peaks. Having taken > apart an Antenna97 recently, I was amazed at how similar these surplus > patches looked to the one in this $50 antenna... > > These are quite popular at hamfests given the increased interest in APRS and > GPS systems. I still have quite a few available if anyone's interested. > (Just don't make it to enough hamfests to clean out the boxes, I guess... > :o) > > Please email me at n8dmt@home.com for further passive patch information or > to request a pair-o-patches be sent to you. Please do not reply back to the > list with an order request. Thanks! > > ALSO: If list readers are interested in other GPS goodies, please drop me an > email at n8dmt@home.com. I'll be cleaning out the shack at some point this > month and should find some extra UT's, GT's and old/new style antennas. > Once I know what you're looking for, I'll put together a list of > who-wants-what and contact you first-come, first served after the 'great > clean-up' is over. Prices will be very reasonable (always sell out at > Dayton--but didn't go this year). Thank you. > > 73's > > Gary N8DMT > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Winingham [mailto:kc5ejk@onramp.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 11:57 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antenna > > > >I have seen articles about home brewing GPS flat plate antennas, but can't > find the pointer right now. > >Can anybody here recall any? > > > > Don't forget this list like several others is available at www.tapr.org > and the archives are searchable. > > > I searched the archives and got several hits on the word > PATCH > > here is one > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:11:30 -0400 > From: SCHULTZ@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV > To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > CC: SCHULTZ@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV > Subject: [tacgps] New Dielectric Patch Antenna at Digikey > List-Owner: > Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > X-Message-Id: <990721211130.30e@CDDIS.GSFC.NASA.GOV> > Sender: bounce-tacgps-5723@lists.tapr.org > Precedence: bulk > Status: RO > > Just got the new Digikey catalog. On page 292 they have a Dielectric > Patch antenna from Toko, for GPS. Resonates at 1580.5 MHz, frequency > shifts 5 MHz lower with a radome. Measures about 1 inch square. > > Part Number TK5150-ND, price $17.33 > > Dan Schultz N8FGV > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > 73 > > -- > > ----- kc5ejk@onramp.net or kc5ejk@amsat.org ----- > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: GREGORY.BEAT@MEDIAONE.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jul 8 16:00:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA24401 for ; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 16:00:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:00:06 -0700 From: Jeff X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GravNav Lite References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <39679656.2CA924F9@flash.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I was waiting for someone with more direct experience to write, but I see no one has. I have used GravNav Lite indirectly. I wanted to know the precise location of my home GPS antenna as it is used for a local DGPS reference station (or at least it was until SA was shut off). I got in touch with David Wilson, and he volunteered to post process data from my VP and the local CORS station to find my home position. I took data on several different occations and then David processed it. We found the resulting position solution to be within 10-15 cm between all the runs. The program could do its magic with about 1 hour of data, but we used various times from 1 hour to 24 hours. The program seemed very effective although you should probably email David Wilson to get first-hand info. You can check out his website at: http://users.erols.com/dlwilson/gps.htm Jeff Vollin Brian Kirby wrote: > Anybody have any experience or comments on using GravNav Lite with the > Oncore VP ? > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: BARNIE@FLASH.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jul 8 21:26:26 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA13475 for ; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:26:25 -0500 (CDT) From: W4OQM@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:25:30 EDT Subject: [tacgps] Re: Patch Antennas To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk My most frequently used reference for antenna designs is: The Antenna Engineering Handbook, 3rd Ed. Richard C. Johnson McGraw-Hill, 1993 Chapter 7 is on Microstrip Antennas (a.k.a. Patch Antennas). The book is a bit expensive, so you may want to dig up a copy and look at it before you buy it. 73, Charlie -- W4OQM c.wells@ieee.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jul 9 14:48:29 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA28364 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:48:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 19:47:32 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Longitude Reminder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3968D6D4.54CB68F9@clark.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk A reminder that A&E starts the 4-part fictionalized and romanticized version of Dava Sobel's LONGITUDE tonite (20:00-21:00 EDT). This is the story of John Harrison and his clocks and his efforts to win the 20,000 pound prize, and of Gould's efforts in the 1920's to rebuild them from the pieces found in a warehouse. A&E's web site at http://www.AandE.com/tv/shows/longitude/ has details about the show. If you miss it, the A&E website says that VHS and DVD copies will be available 8/1/2000. Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jul 9 16:10:22 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA09574 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 16:10:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "John K. Pringle" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Longitude reminder Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:09:34 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the reminder Tom. According to my program guide, it's one continuous 4-hour show (8PM - 12M EDT) to be repeated 12M - 4AM EDT. Going to be a LONG night. Hope I can stay awake. If it's as good as the book I shouldn't have any problem. Couldn't put the book down until I finished it. 73 John --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jul 9 17:08:35 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA19795 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:08:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:07:52 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" CC: Jim Read Subject: [tacgps] LONGITUDE -- A correction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3968F7B8.F4D777AC@clark.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk After I posted my reminder, I was setting up the VCR and see from the DSS on-screen schedule that A&E is carrying all 4 hours in one marathon burst. The times are 20:00-24:00 EDT and then repeat west-coast feed from 00:00 to 04:00 EDT. I see that John Pringle also noticed this and posted a notice. Sorry for the goof. 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 10 01:15:02 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id BAA10564 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 01:15:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:11:27 -0400 From: Bill Powell Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] [tacgps]Re>Longitude reminder References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3969690F.3DEA0E18@intrex.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk My program guide agrees with John's. It also says there will be a repeat on A&E this Tuesday - first show 8PM-Midnight, with a second showing from Midnight-4AM. Regards, Bill Powell af4jg "John K. Pringle" wrote: > > Thanks for the reminder Tom. > According to my program guide, it's one continuous 4-hour show (8PM - 12M > EDT) to be repeated 12M - 4AM EDT. > Going to be a LONG night. Hope I can stay awake. If it's as good as the book > I shouldn't have any problem. Couldn't put the book down until I finished > it. > > 73 John > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: BPOWELL@INTREX.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 10 16:55:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA08158 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:55:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:54:17 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [tacgps] Software for patch antennas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000710024235.00bcfc40@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to the pointer, I found the following software for calculating dimensions, etc of patch (an other) antennas. http://rf.rfglobalnet.com/software_modeling/software/3/413.htm I have not tried the software yet Again, thanks. 73 de KN6TD (s) Derek --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 10 20:07:09 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA15894 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:07:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Gregory Beat" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re:> Longitude encore show reminder Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:05:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002d01bfead4$40545c20$6e938318@ce.mediaone.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I just saw the promo for repeat (encore) of Longitude .... 8 p.m. eastern / 7 p.m. central GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Powell" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 1:11 AM Subject: [tacgps] [tacgps]Re>Longitude reminder > My program guide agrees with John's. It also says there will be a > repeat on A&E this Tuesday - first show 8PM-Midnight, with a second > showing from Midnight-4AM. > > Regards, > Bill Powell af4jg > > > "John K. Pringle" wrote: > > > > Thanks for the reminder Tom. > > According to my program guide, it's one continuous 4-hour show (8PM - 12M > > EDT) to be repeated 12M - 4AM EDT. > > Going to be a LONG night. Hope I can stay awake. If it's as good as the book > > I shouldn't have any problem. Couldn't put the book down until I finished > > it. > > > > 73 John > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: BPOWELL@INTREX.NET > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: GREGORY.BEAT@MEDIAONE.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 11 06:55:59 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA29958 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:55:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 6:55:15 Subject: [tacgps] Antennas To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Brian Kirby" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk I had a Motorola Antenna 97 failure. The symptoms was one day the receiver started losing lock for a few seconds at a time. Then the next day it failed for 33 minutes. And the next day it died and did not come back. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 11 09:03:42 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA15839 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:03:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Kirby, Brian" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Antennas Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:00:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFEB40.65392E46" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEB40.65392E46 Content-Type: text/plain Your message was not delivered to the following recipients: Gary_Mastenbrook-g13216@email.mot.com: Ambiguous name Reporting-MTA: dns;m-il06-r2.mot.com Final-Recipient: rfc822;Gary_Mastenbrook-g13216@email.mot.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.4 I'd like to take you up on the offer, but I know it went out in Monday's trash. I have ordered some replacements from TAPR. And, I appreciate the thought. It was not pretty when I got thru inspecting it. It was epoxied to a homemade chokering. The only thing I found was water, but it had not went past the seal. I did not see any failed components. If I lose another, I'll hold on to it for you. I bought 3 of them at the same time. I don't think it was a lot problem, as the other two are in use and working fine (24hrs a day since December 1999). ---------- From: Mastenbrook Gary-G13216[SMTP:Gary_Mastenbrook-g13216@email.mot.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 8:40 AM To: 'brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov' Subject: RE: [tacgps] Antennas Brian, Would you accept the offer for another antenna (used, but in good & working condition) for your failed one? I'd like to return your unit to the quality director at Motorola TCG responsible for these products......... > ---------- > From: Brian Kirby[SMTP:brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov] > Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 1:55 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Antennas > > I had a Motorola Antenna 97 failure. The symptoms was one day the > receiver > started losing lock for a few seconds at a time. Then the next day it > failed for 33 minutes. And the next day it died and did not come back. > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEB40.65392E46 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Antennas

Your message was not delivered to the = following recipients:
Gary_Mastenbrook-g13216@email.mot.com: Ambiguous = name
Reporting-MTA: = dns;m-il06-r2.mot.com
Final-Recipient: = rfc822;Gary_Mastenbrook-g13216@email.mot.com
Action: = failed
Status: = 5.1.4

I'd like to take you = up on the offer, but I know it went out in Monday's trash.=A0 I have = ordered some replacements from TAPR.=A0 And, I appreciate the = thought.

It was not pretty = when I got thru inspecting it.=A0 It was epoxied to a homemade = chokering.=A0 The only thing I found was water, but it had not went = past the seal.=A0 I did not see any failed components.=A0

If I lose another, = I'll hold on to it for you.=A0 I bought 3 of them at the same time.=A0 = I don't think it was a lot problem, as the other two are in use and = working fine (24hrs a day since December 1999).

        ----------
From: =A0 Mastenbrook = Gary-G13216[SMTP:Gary_Mastenbrook-g13216@email.mot.com]
Sent: =A0 Tuesday, July 11, 2000 8:40 AM =
To: =A0=A0=A0 'brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov'
Subject: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 RE: [tacgps] Antennas

        Brian,
Would you accept the offer for = another antenna (used, but in good & working
condition) for your failed one?=A0 = I'd like to return your unit to the quality =
director at Motorola TCG responsible = for these products.........

    ----------
    From:   = Brian = Kirby[SMTP:brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov]
    Reply To: =       TAPR Special Interest Group
    Sent:   = Tuesday, July 11, 2000 1:55 = AM
    To: =     TAPR Special = Interest Group
    Subject: =        [tacgps] Antennas

    I had a Motorola Antenna 97 failure.&nb= sp; The symptoms was one day the receiver
    started losing lock for a few seconds = at a time.  Then the next day it
    failed for 33 minutes.  And the = next day it died and did not come back.


    ---
    You are currently subscribed to = tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov
    To unsubscribe send a blank email to = leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEB40.65392E46-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 18 18:21:35 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA00425 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:21:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Steven R. Bible" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] ARRL and TAPR 19th Annual Digital Communications Conference Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:20:23 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ARRL and TAPR 19th Annual Digital Communications Conference September 22-24, 2000 - Orlando, Florida For more information see: http://www.tapr.org/dcc Information Mark your calendar and start making plans to attend the year's premier event in digital communications. The 19th Annual ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference will be held September 22-24, 2000, in Orlando, Florida - just minutes from the Orlando International Airport. The ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference is an international forum for radio amateurs in digital communications, networking, and related technologies to meet, publish their work, and present new ideas and techniques for discussion. Presenters and attendees will have the opportunity to exchange ideas and learn about recent hardware and software advances, theories, experimental results, and practical applications. The Digital Communications Conference is not just for the digital expert, but also for digitally oriented amateurs of all levels of experience. A Conference for the Beginner as well The conference is not just for the digital expert. As in years past an entire session strand with beginning, intermediate, and advanced presentations on selected topics in digital communications will be offered. Some of the topics will include: APRS, Satellite Communications, TCP/IP, Digital Radio, Spread Spectrum and other introductory topics. Come to the conference and hear these topics presented by the experts! Area Attractions The Orlando Florida area is famous for its attractions and vacation spots. Disney World, Universal Studios, and Sea World (just to name a few) are within 15 minutes of the hotel. Shuttle service from the hotel will be available for a small fee. Cape Canaveral and Cocoa Beach are a 30 minute drive East of the hotel. Symposia, Seminars and Banquet Two symposia/seminars will be held which allow those with additional time and interest to make the most of the Conference. For those who may have interest in just one symposium or seminar, registration for the conference is not required to attend these activities. This allows maximum flexibility for those who may want to participate during the Digital Communications Conference, but do not have an entire weekend to devote to the event. The Fourth APRS National Symposium will be held on Friday and will be moderated by Steve Dimse, K4HG (the developer of javAPRS). It will likely include many APRS software authors, such as Bob Bruninga, WB4APR (the father ofAPRS), Keith Sproul, WU2Z, Mark Sproul, KB2ICI (the developers of MacAPRS and WinAPRS), Brent Hildebrand, KH2Z (the developer of APRSPLUS), Mike Musick, N0QBF (developer of PocketAPRS), and other nationally known APRS leaders. Join this group for the afternoon and evening for in-depth discussions and presentations on the current and future status of APRS. This is a unique opportunity to gain insight into this fast-growing digital aspect of amateur operations that combines computers, packet radio, and GPS (Global Positioning System). On Saturday night the DCC Banquet will be held. A guest speaker will speak after the banquet and a prize drawing will top the evening. The Grand Prize is a Palm VII Personal Digital Assistant. The Sunday morning seminar will be focused on PIC development, design, and programming. This five-and-a-half hour seminar will focus on the things you need to know now in order to understand and begin to participate in PIC development. Co-Hosts The 2000 ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference local co- hosts will be Lake Monroe Amateur Radio Society (http://www.qsl.net/lmars/),Orange County ARES/RACES(http://evcom.net/~jvoisin/ares.htm), Seminole County ARES/RACES (http://wwww.geocities.com/capecanaveral/launchpad/4773), and Orlando Amateur Radio Club(http://www.oarc.org/). International Co-Hosts PRUG (Packet Radio User Group of Japan) will be the International co-host for a third year running. PRUG will be hosting an informal social Friday evening before their seminar and symposium is held. Visit http://www.prug.or.jp for more information about PRUG. Call for Papers Anyone interested in digital communications is invited to submit a paper for publication in the Conference Proceedings. Presentation at the Conference is not required for publication. Papers are due by August 7th, 2000, and should be submitted to Maty Weinberg, ARRL 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 or via the Internet to lweinberg@arrl.org Information on paper submission guidelines are available on-line at http://www.tapr.org/dcc Hotel Conference presentations, meetings, and seminars will be held at the Orlando Airport Marriott. It is highly recommended that you book your room prior to arriving. A special DCC room rate of $89/single and $89/double per night has been blocked for 50 rooms and is available until September 1st, 2000. Once the 50 rooms have been reserved, room rates will increase. So be sure to book your rooms early! The hotel provides transportation to and from the Orlando International Airport. Please contact the hotel to arrange specific transportation needs. Orlando Airport Marriott (conference hotel) 7499 Augusta Drive Orlando, FL 32822 Phone 407-851-9000, Fax 407-857-6211 (http://marriotthotels.com/MCOAP/) What you can expect at DCC 2000 - A full day of papers and breakouts for the beginner to the advanced - Two seminars/symposiums - The fifth annual Student Paper session. - A banquet with Special Guest Speaker. - Informal get-togethers throughout the weekend. - TAPR Membership Meeting - An event at which the most important new developments in amateur digital communications are announced. - Digital 'movers and shakers' from all over the world in attendance. There are few activities where your participation can be so much fun and important! What a great way to share and renew your enthusiasm for digital amateur radio! A get-together with colleagues and bringing each other up to date on your latest work -- all this, and more, for an unforgettable weekend of amateur radio and digital communications. We hope to see you at the ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference on September 22-24, 2000! Full information on the conference and hotel information can be obtained by contacting: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Phone: (940) 383-0000. Fax: (940) 566-2544 Email: tapr@tapr.org Web: http://www.tapr.org Registration Form Contact the TAPR office by Phone 940-383-0000, Fax 940-566-2544, or Internet: http://www.tapr.org and tapr@tapr.org to register or for additional information. Conference Registration includes: Conference Proceedings, Sessions, Meetings, and Lunch on Saturday. - Pre-Registration (before Sept 1st) $45.00 ______ - Registration (after Sept 1) or at door $55.00 ______ - Saturday Evening Dinner (Limited Space) Dinner with Guest Speaker Prize Drawing $30.00 ______ Symposia/Seminars - 4th Annual APRS National Symposium Friday, 1pm - 7pm. $25.00 ______ - Sunday Seminar PIC Design, Development, and Programming Sunday, 8:30 am - 2 pm. $20.00 ______ TOTAL ______ Name/Call: Street Address: City/State/Zip: Country: Phone Number: Email: Charge my credit card (circle one): VISA MasterCard Acct: Expiration Date: Signature on card: Mail completed registration form with check to: TAPR 8987-309 E Tanque Verde Rd #3378 Tucson, AZ 85749-9399 Or check http://www.tapr.org/dcc for an on-line registration form. A registration packet will be mailed in September upon receipt of registration form and payment. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 18 22:09:55 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA07333 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:09:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Envelope-From: prossen@znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: From: "Pete Prossen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:14:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002801bff12f$77fba280$1e42a7cf@acerdesktop> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I taped Longitude for rescheduled viewing rather than try to stay on the couch for 4 hours. But it is so heavily polluted with commercials that the continuity of this great story is lost. And I know this will get worse further in to the story. The DVD is available, delivered and with tax, for $49.46. But that's beyond my threshold of price resistance to watch even this fine presentation. Is there anyone in the North San Diego County area that would like to share ownership with me? Pete Prossen WA6ZUH prossen@znet.com --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 18 22:26:21 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA09501 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:26:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Steve Sampson" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:24:09 -0500 Organization: USA Site Network MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001301bff130$cd39ba60$83228cd1@spacewar.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I concur on the number of commercials. And not one Timex commercial in all that! I went to go feed my cat on the 40th commercial and forgot to come back and see the end... I missed the point of the guy in the chase scene who ended up in the nuthouse?? ----- Original Message ----- > But it is so heavily polluted with commercials that the continuity of this > great story is lost. And I know this will get worse further in to the > story. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 18 22:27:50 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA09774 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:27:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Scott O'Connell" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Help with TAC-2? Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:27:16 -0700 Organization: Spectrum Data Services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000e01bff131$3d1aeed0$15f285c6@sds.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I've been running my TAC-2 for a few weeks now, and just got around to getting a battery for the UPS option. I picked up a PowerSonic PS-1208, 12V, .8Ah battery that fits nicely in the case I used. Would anyone be willing to help me get this battery connected properly? I'm a little unsure about the installation, especially the proper values for the slow and fast charging resistors, and whatever else might be needed. The docs at the bottom of page 16 of the assembly manual aren't enough for me! :-) Any help is greatly appreciated. Feel free to take this off the list. scotto@sds.com --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 19 08:14:03 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA07569 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:14:02 -0500 (CDT) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) office-pc from arc3a147.bf.sover.net [209.198.115.148] 209.198.115.148 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Ira A. Wilner" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:12:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002001bff183$06c2c220$9473c6d1@office-pc> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Steve Sampson To: TAPR Special Interest Group Date: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:26 PM Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder >I concur on the number of commercials. And not one Timex >commercial in all that! I went to go feed my cat on the 40th >commercial and forgot to come back and see the end... > >I missed the point of the guy in the chase scene who ended up >in the nuthouse?? > I tuned in to the final hour and struggled to get the gist of it. It didn't help that I tuned away during the commercial breaks and lost even more of the story! The commercial break excesses made it intolerable. So, what was the point of this melodramatic film? And what, if any of it, was historically correct? Weren't early ships clocks wall mounted devices, and not oversized pocket watches as depicted in the film? I think Longitude had the wrong (L)attitude. --Ira --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 19 08:41:22 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA10713 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:41:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: j.m.franke@express.larc.nasa.gov Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:40:57 -0400 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: John Franke Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Early ship chronometers, and more recent ones, were gimbal mounted in wooden boxes about six to eight inches cubed. John >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Sampson >To: TAPR Special Interest Group >Date: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:26 PM >Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder > >So, what was the point of this melodramatic film? And what, if any of it, >was historically correct? Weren't early ships clocks wall mounted devices, >and not oversized pocket watches as depicted in the film? > >I think Longitude had the wrong (L)attitude. > >--Ira > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: J.M.FRANKE@LARC.NASA.GOV >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 19 10:08:31 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA04194 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:08:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:7:15 Subject: [tacgps] RINEX Format from GPS25 Data To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Bruce Block" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk Re the post-processing thread of 6/28/00, I have been impressed with the results that I have obtained using C/A code and phase data from my GPSIII+ and the GeoGenius Basic software package. I am currently modifying the Antonio Tabernero "async" software to read GPS25 binary data and convert it to RINEX, but it occurs to me that someone may already have written something similar. Anybody know of such software (preferably available in source form)? Bruce W8XN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 20 10:07:36 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA13833 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:07:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Subject: [tacgps] GPS Surveying Asst't Software Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:10:50 -0700 x-sender: ebs@biophysics.lanl.gov From: Brooks Shera To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Emailer_-1247801029" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200007201506.JAA04484@lawyer.lanl.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk --Emailer_-1247801029 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have written some JavaScript/HTML software that is handy for relating GPS position measurements (WGS-84) to local surveying coordinates, and has several other useful features of possible interest to tacgps folks. Briefly, given accurate GPS coordinates (latitude, longitude) for a pair of points that can be located on a local survey plat, this program computes the angular offset and distance scaling needed to transfer GPS measurements to the local survey. When these offset and scaling factors have been determined, the WGS-84 latitude and longitude of other locations on the survey plat can be computed. This information allows surveyed locations to be accurately located on the ground using a GPS receiver. For people not interested in surveying, the program can do some other potentially useful calculations. For example, given GPS coordinates and heights of two locations, the program can compute the bearing, distance, and elevation (above the horizon) of the line-on-sight path between them. This latter feature is rarely seen in navigation programs, which typically assume both stations are at sea level. It is useful for those who seek to identify distant mountains by their bearing and angle above the horizon, since it can also solve the inverse problem (given a bearing & distance it will compute a position). It is also useful for estimating line-of-site radio paths between two locations. To account for atmospheric diffraction the earth's radius is increased in the line-of-sight calculation by 16.2% for optical and 33.3% for radio frequencies. But that's getting into the details. The software can used on-line on my website www.rt66.com/~shera, or you can snitch it (and the associated SAhelp file) off the website and run it off-line on your own computer using your browser. It should run under any operating system that has a fairly modern browser. For the curious, I have attached the html help file to this message. Some of Survey Assistant's features are available in expensive software packages, but I haven't seen any such package that is platform independent or FREE. Comments welcome. Brooks --Emailer_-1247801029 Content-Type: text/html; name="SAhelp.htm"; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="646F7361" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: Attachment; filename="SAhelp.htm" PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+DQo8VElUTEU+R1BTIFN1cnZleSBBc3Npc3RhbnQgSW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb25zIDwv VElUTEU+PC9IRUFEPg0KDQo8RFQ+PENFTlRFUj48Qj5HUFMgU3VydmV5IEFzc2lzdGFudDwvQj48 L0RUPg0KPERUPkp1bHkgMjAsIDIwMDA8L0RUPjwvQ0VOVEVSPg0KPFA+DQpUaGUgcHJpbWFyeSBw dXJwb3NlIG9mIHRoaXMgcHJvZ3JhbSBpcyB0byBjb252ZXJ0IGJldHdlZW4gZ3BzLW1lYXN1cmVk DQpjb29yZGluYXRlcyAoV0dTLTg0KSBhbmQgbG9jYWwgc3VydmV5IGJlYXJpbmdzIGFuZCBkaXN0 YW5jZXMNCnRoYXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgcmVhZCBvZmYgYSBzdXJ2ZXkgcGxhdCBvciBhIGxlZ2FsIHBy b3BlcnR5IGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uLjwvUD4NCjxQPg0KTG9jYWwgZ3JvdW5kIHN1cnZleXMgYXJlIHR5 cGljYWxseSBleHByZXNzZWQgaW4gdGVybXMgb2YgPGk+YW5nbGVzPC9pPiBhbmQgPGk+DQpkaXN0 YW5jZXM8L2k+IGZyb20gYSBrbm93biBwaHlzaWNhbCBzdGFydGluZyBwb2ludC4gIEhvd2V2ZXIs IHRoZSBhbmdsZXMgYXJlDQptZWFzdXJlZCBmcm9tIGEgIm5vcnRoIiBkaXJlY3Rpb24gdGhhdCBw 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bHkgYnVnIHJlcG9ydHMsIHRvIHNoZXJhQHJ0NjYuY29tLiAgICAgDQo= --Emailer_-1247801029-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 20 17:16:58 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA29410 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:16:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:16:00 -0700 From: Scott Tillman Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: AZ Dept. of Public Safety X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <39777A20.7F02767A@primenet.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > > TAPR Special Interest Group Digest for Monday, May 22, 2000. > > 1. > 2. DGPS accuracy > 3. RE: DGPS accuracy > 4. Re: DGPS accuracy > 5. > > Subject: DGPS accuracy > From: Scott Tillman > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:00:47 -0700 > X-Message-Number: 2 > > So we all know that the accuracy of the basic GPS receiver > has improved since SA has been turned off, but has that > effected the results of a differential corrected receiver?? > > scott k7ysv@iname.com > > ------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: DGPS accuracy > From: "Kirby, Brian" > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:05:45 -0500 > X-Message-Number: 3 > > > I have two Oncore VPs and a M12. When the VP generates DGPS, the other VP > tracks it very tightly, usually within a meter over 15 minutes. > > ------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: DGPS accuracy > From: Gerry Creager > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:35 -0500 > X-Message-Number: 4 > > > Little. There's going to be some improvement because clocks are > nominally better (unless you're using an M12 ;-) but most of the error > introduced by SA was eliminated by DGPS. > > Gerry > >-------------------------------------- > Subject: DGPS accuracy OK, now that we have had more time without SA, My question is still; how does "bare" GPS compare to DGPS. The old statement was DGPS got you under 5 meter error. That's on the order of "bare" GPS now, does DGPS now get us 1 meter results like Brian is seeing or do not get any significant improvement like Gerry suggests. JUst what if anything does DGPS correct now??? Scott K7YSV --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 20 17:29:09 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA02972 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:29:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Jim King" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:28:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <00c901bff299$c40abf60$a44b8486@jking> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > OK, now that we have had more time without SA, My > question is still; how > does "bare" GPS compare to DGPS. The old statement was > DGPS got you under > 5 meter error. That's on the order of "bare" GPS now, > does DGPS now get us > 1 meter results like Brian is seeing or do not get any > significant improvement > like Gerry suggests. JUst what if anything does DGPS > correct now??? > > Scott K7YSV My guess is that it depends on the receiver. I've seen reports of Oncore VP's with DGPS getting 1 meter accuracy, but Garmin handhelds (III+, I think) with DGPS only getting 5 meter accuracy. I think that lack of SA helps show differences in receiver accuracy that weren't apparent before. Jim --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 20 20:35:07 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA11532 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:35:04 -0500 (CDT) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:33:54 -0500 From: Gerry Creager N5JXS Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru, be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3977A882.912C785E@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk Jim King wrote: > > > OK, now that we have had more time without SA, My > > question is still; how > > does "bare" GPS compare to DGPS. The old statement was > > DGPS got you under > > 5 meter error. That's on the order of "bare" GPS now, > > does DGPS now get us > > 1 meter results like Brian is seeing or do not get any > > significant improvement > > like Gerry suggests. JUst what if anything does DGPS > > correct now??? > > > > Scott K7YSV > > My guess is that it depends on the receiver. I've seen reports of Oncore > VP's with DGPS getting 1 meter accuracy, but Garmin handhelds (III+, I > think) with DGPS only getting 5 meter accuracy. I think that lack of SA > helps show differences in receiver accuracy that weren't apparent before. My experience with SA on, but in the period after Gore discovered GPS was that error ranged, generally between 30 and 50m, with periodic excursions to 95-100m, and inwards to 10m for generally short periods. Post SA, I've not had as much time to form a scientific opinion, but my initial impressions place the accuracy in the range of 6-10m (all of these are 2-sigma CEP...) with excursions to about 15m mostly associated with bad geometry and as little as 2-3m, associated with magic and luck. My experience with DGPS w/SA was solid and reproducible enough to state that I tended to see a 1 order of magnitude improvement (60m --> 6m, etc) with DGPS within about 60 km (rover to base) and some degradation outward from there. I've done little enough code-phase work since SA went off, but I see no reason why the improvement shouldn't be similar: 10x or so... But when you couple that with the marked improvement in autonomous accuracy now that SA's off, that means you're starting with 10m, a 10x improvement places gives you something on the order of 1m with DGPS. I'm trying to get a new Javad system up and running for dual freq work, but once it's up I'll have a base station for code and carrier phase corrections and can do some more looking at this. 73, gerry n5jxs -- Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Jul 21 07:33:28 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA19913 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:33:27 -0500 (CDT) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:32:06 -0500 From: Gerry Creager N5JXS Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru, be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Surveying Asst't Software References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397842C6.49D2294F@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk Brooks Shera wrote: > > I have written some JavaScript/HTML software that is handy for relating > GPS position measurements (WGS-84) to local surveying coordinates, and > has several other useful features of possible interest to tacgps folks. > > Briefly, given accurate GPS coordinates (latitude, longitude) for a pair > of points that can be located on a local survey plat, this program > computes the angular offset and distance scaling needed to transfer GPS > measurements to the local survey. When these offset and scaling factors > have been determined, the WGS-84 latitude and longitude of other > locations on the survey plat can be computed. This information allows > surveyed locations to be accurately located on the ground using a GPS > receiver. > > For people not interested in surveying, the program can do some other > potentially useful calculations. For example, given GPS coordinates and > heights of two locations, the program can compute the bearing, distance, > and elevation (above the horizon) of the line-on-sight path between them. > This latter feature is rarely seen in navigation programs, which > typically assume both stations are at sea level. It is useful for those > who seek to identify distant mountains by their bearing and angle above > the horizon, since it can also solve the inverse problem (given a bearing > & distance it will compute a position). It is also useful for estimating > line-of-site radio paths between two locations. To account for > atmospheric diffraction the earth's radius is increased in the > line-of-sight calculation by 16.2% for optical and 33.3% for radio > frequencies. But that's getting into the details. > > The software can used on-line on my website www.rt66.com/~shera, or you > can snitch it (and the associated SAhelp file) off the website and run it > off-line on your own computer using your browser. It should run under > any operating system that has a fairly modern browser. For the curious, I > have attached the html help file to this message. > > Some of Survey Assistant's features are available in expensive software > packages, but I haven't seen any such package that is platform > independent or FREE. I'm currently too coffee-deficient to try it at this instant, but I'll look later today...assuming my real job doesn't get in the way... and I'll point one of our professors who teaches surveying at it, or one of his grad students. Thanks for the note and the effort! 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Jul 21 08:49:14 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA00187 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:49:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Steven R. Bible" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:48:36 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > OK, now that we have had more time without SA, My > question is still; how > does "bare" GPS compare to DGPS. The old statement was > DGPS got you under > 5 meter error. That's on the order of "bare" GPS now, > does DGPS now get us > 1 meter results like Brian is seeing or do not get any > significant improvement > like Gerry suggests. JUst what if anything does DGPS > correct now??? > > Scott K7YSV Don't forget that DGPS reference stations also provide you with integrity of the GPS signal. This is one of the great intangibles. That reference stations are monitoring the GPS signals and sending corrections to the remote GPS units gives the remotes another vote from the reference stations. In the event that a GPS satellite goes awry, the remote GPS is not alone in determining its position. Together with DGPS corrections can determine if the satellite data is good or not. In the past, there have been many a lone GPS receiver lock-up or give an incorrect position when a satellite was not operating properly. This is mostly the GPS receivers fault and many of the manufactures are better at this now. Also, in the U.S. Coast Guard DGPS System, they employ monitoring stations of the reference stations. If a reference station goes awry, the backup reference station comes online and a status message (Type 16 I think?) is set out. If your DGPS receiver is so equipped, it can print out the status messages. - Steve, N7HPR n7hpr@tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 06:53:05 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA16828 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 06:53:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Kirby, Brian" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 06:49:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFF565.3973E7A4" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF565.3973E7A4 Content-Type: text/plain Now that its summer, the only DGPS I can run, is if I generate it (I am 129 miles from the nearest DGPS beacon, its too noisy in the summer). Using a Oncore VP and sending corrections out once a second, a Oncore tracks it very tight. When I send it to a Garmin 12XL, I noticed the EPE jumps from 12-16 to somewhere in the 24-30 foot range. Dr. Clark informed that was due to generating 8 channels of DGPS reference vs 12 channels needed. >From what I have seen, DGPS is not needed unless you need a reference for post processing. I have logged the Oncores for 2 weeks at a clip and the average position is in a 12 ft circuit. I have not logged a Garmin, but I use one every day and it takes me to the same place every day. > ---------- > From: Gerry Creager N5JXS[SMTP:gerry@cs.tamu.edu] > Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:33 PM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 > > Jim King wrote: > > > > > OK, now that we have had more time without SA, My > > > question is still; how > > > does "bare" GPS compare to DGPS. The old statement was > > > DGPS got you under > > > 5 meter error. That's on the order of "bare" GPS now, > > > does DGPS now get us > > > 1 meter results like Brian is seeing or do not get any > > > significant improvement > > > like Gerry suggests. JUst what if anything does DGPS > > > correct now??? > > > > > > Scott K7YSV > > > > My guess is that it depends on the receiver. I've seen reports of > Oncore > > VP's with DGPS getting 1 meter accuracy, but Garmin handhelds (III+, I > > think) with DGPS only getting 5 meter accuracy. I think that lack of SA > > helps show differences in receiver accuracy that weren't apparent > before. > > My experience with SA on, but in the period after Gore discovered GPS > was that error ranged, generally between 30 and 50m, with periodic > excursions to 95-100m, and inwards to 10m for generally short periods. > Post SA, I've not had as much time to form a scientific opinion, but my > initial impressions place the accuracy in the range of 6-10m (all of > these are 2-sigma CEP...) with excursions to about 15m mostly associated > with bad geometry and as little as 2-3m, associated with magic and luck. > > My experience with DGPS w/SA was solid and reproducible enough to state > that I tended to see a 1 order of magnitude improvement (60m --> 6m, > etc) with DGPS within about 60 km (rover to base) and some degradation > outward from there. I've done little enough code-phase work since SA > went off, but I see no reason why the improvement shouldn't be similar: > 10x or so... But when you couple that with the marked improvement in > autonomous accuracy now that SA's off, that means you're starting with > 10m, a 10x improvement places gives you something on the order of 1m > with DGPS. > > I'm trying to get a new Javad system up and running for dual freq work, > but once it's up I'll have a base station for code and carrier phase > corrections and can do some more looking at this. > > 73, gerry n5jxs > -- > Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu > Network Engineering |Research focusing on > Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and > Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control > 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF565.3973E7A4 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000

Now that its summer, = the only DGPS I can run, is if I generate it (I am 129 miles from the = nearest DGPS beacon, its too noisy in the summer).  Using a Oncore = VP and sending corrections out once a second, a Oncore tracks it very = tight.  When I send it to a Garmin 12XL, I noticed the EPE jumps = from 12-16 to somewhere in the 24-30 foot range.  Dr. Clark = informed that was due to generating 8 channels of DGPS reference vs 12 = channels needed.

From what I have = seen, DGPS is not needed unless you need a reference for post = processing.  I have logged the Oncores for 2 weeks at a clip and = the average position is in a 12 ft circuit.  I have not logged a = Garmin, but I use one every day and it takes me to the same place every = day.

    ----------
    From:   = Gerry Creager = N5JXS[SMTP:gerry@cs.tamu.edu]
    Reply To: =       TAPR Special Interest Group
    Sent:   = Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:33 = PM
    To: =     TAPR Special = Interest Group
    Subject: =        [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000

    Jim King wrote:
    >
    > >   OK, now that we = have had more time without SA,  My
    > > question is still; = how
    > >   does = "bare" GPS compare to DGPS.   The old statement = was
    > > DGPS got you under
    > >   5 meter = error.   That's on the order of "bare" GPS = now,
    > > does DGPS now get us
    > >   1 meter results = like Brian is seeing or do not get any
    > > significant = improvement
    > >   like Gerry = suggests.  JUst what if anything does DGPS
    > > correct now???
    > >
    > > Scott   = K7YSV
    >
    > My guess is that it depends on = the receiver.  I've seen reports of Oncore
    > VP's with DGPS getting 1 meter = accuracy, but Garmin handhelds (III+, I
    > think) with DGPS only getting 5 = meter accuracy.  I think that lack of SA
    > helps show differences in = receiver accuracy that weren't apparent before.

    My experience with SA on, but in the = period after Gore discovered GPS
    was that error ranged, generally = between 30 and 50m, with periodic
    excursions to 95-100m, and inwards to = 10m for generally short periods.
    Post SA, I've not had as much time to = form a scientific opinion, but my
    initial impressions place the = accuracy in the range of 6-10m (all of
    these are 2-sigma CEP...) with = excursions to about 15m mostly associated
    with bad geometry and as little as = 2-3m, associated with magic and luck.

    My experience with DGPS w/SA was solid = and reproducible enough to state
    that I tended to see a 1 order of = magnitude improvement (60m --> 6m,
    etc) with DGPS within about 60 km = (rover to base) and some degradation
    outward from there.  I've done = little enough code-phase work since SA
    went off, but I see no reason why the = improvement shouldn't be similar:
    10x or so...  But when you = couple that with the marked improvement in
    autonomous accuracy now that SA's = off, that means you're starting with
    10m, a 10x improvement places gives = you something on the order of 1m
    with DGPS.

    I'm trying to get a new Javad system = up and running for dual freq work,
    but once it's up I'll have a base = station for code and carrier phase
    corrections and can do some more = looking at this.

    73, gerry n5jxs
    --
    Gerry Creager   =         gerry@cs.tamu.edu, = gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu
    Network = Engineering     =         =         |Research focusing on
    Computer Science = Department     =         |Satellite Geodesy and =
    Texas A&M = University            =         |Geodetic Control
    979.458.4020  (Phone) -- = 979.847.8578  (Fax)

    ---
    You are currently subscribed to = tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov
    To unsubscribe send a blank email to = leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF565.3973E7A4-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 07:04:35 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA18614 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 07:04:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 7:3:55 Subject: [tacgps] Antenna Testing - Phase Center To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Brian Kirby" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk How can one check phase center on a antenna? I have 3 Oncores, 2 portable antennas, and one permanent base antenna. By running all the GPS off of the base antenna, I can see the difference of the individual gps. This position is not surveyed. Down the road, I have two NGS benchmarks about a mile apart. I thought about setting up an antenna at each benchmark and rotating all three GPS thru a test, recording two at a time (combination would be six test) and then post processing the data. Will this type of test give me the data I am looking for ? --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 08:19:36 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA00138 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:19:35 -0500 (CDT) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:17:18 -0500 From: Gerry Creager N5JXS Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru, be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397C41DE.C998E08F@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk > "Kirby, Brian" wrote: > > Now that its summer, the only DGPS I can run, is if I generate it (I > am 129 miles from the nearest DGPS beacon, its too noisy in the > summer). Using a Oncore VP and sending corrections out once a second, > a Oncore tracks it very tight. When I send it to a Garmin 12XL, I > noticed the EPE jumps from 12-16 to somewhere in the 24-30 foot > range. Dr. Clark informed that was due to generating 8 channels of > DGPS reference vs 12 channels needed. If the Garmin is not using the same satellites in its position determination that are being reported by the DGPS station, there will not be a demonstrable improvement. It's been my experience that, really, you have 7-9 satellites in your sky most of the time, with periodic dips to 3-4 (rarely 3...) and occasional peaks to as many as 13 (I've seen that exactly once). Thus, an 8 channel DGPS generator should be adequate. Most of the time. If some of your pseudoranges are corrected and some not, then your position may well vary from truth. Thus, it's always better to have a DGPS receiver capable of "all-in-view" generation, but again, 8 channels is usually enough. I've not gotten enough solid information to be certain, but have been told by reliable sources that the EPE Garmin generates is not necessarily gospel. From my perspective, the only way to determine error is to compare it to a well-surveyed point and go on from there. > From what I have seen, DGPS is not needed unless you need a reference > for post processing. I have logged the Oncores for 2 weeks at a clip > and the average position is in a 12 ft circuit. I have not logged a > Garmin, but I use one every day and it takes me to the same place > every day. Depends on what you need and are using it for. If you're doing high-precision GIS work, it's nice to gleen the extra meter or 2 out of the solution. If you're doing surveying, it's mandatory. If you're trying to find one parking space in in the parking lot at the HOSC, you'd better use it. If you're only trying to find the parking lot... or even a region therein that's fairly large, DGPS isn't needed. I also suspect (and remember? from here?) that the Garmin receivers are a bit noisier than the OnCores. That'll contribute to your error budget as well. 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 08:29:36 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA03039 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:29:35 -0500 (CDT) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:23:22 -0500 From: Gerry Creager N5JXS Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru, be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397C4349.E28B1398@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk Brian Kirby wrote: > > How can one check phase center on a antenna? > > I have 3 Oncores, 2 portable antennas, and one permanent base antenna. > > By running all the GPS off of the base antenna, I can see the difference of > the individual gps. This position is not surveyed. > > Down the road, I have two NGS benchmarks about a mile apart. I thought > about setting up an antenna at each benchmark and rotating all three GPS > thru a test, recording two at a time (combination would be six test) and > then post processing the data. > > Will this type of test give me the data I am looking for ? Gerry Mader at NGS does this as someth9ing between a living and a religion. Check out the antenna pages under research at http://www.grdl.noaa.gov/GRD/GPS/Projects/ANTCAL/ to see what he has for results. In general, one test antenna is compared to a "gold standard" antenna. Survey grade measurements are made and the results lead to determination of phase center. It's not going to be necessarily easy using NGS monuments, as you need stable platforms for the work. If you'd like to discuss this more, let's do it off-line, unless there's sig-level interest for a tutorial on this... 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 09:12:45 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA11481 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:12:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:12:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: From: barnie@flash.net Organization: FlashNet Communications X-Sender: barnie@flash.net MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200007241412.JAA17116@ogopogo.flash.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Gerry: I think there may be general interest in this topic. I am interested for one. If there is too much text for the group, perhaps you could point us to web references or put the text at an FTP site. Regarding the phase center, would not the NGS method actually only give the delta between the phase center of the golden antenna and the antenna under test? I was under the impression that the only absolute antenna cal required an anechoic chamber and GPS simulator hardware. Of course, given the "golden" antenna phase center is no doubt known to high precision, the end result is the phase center of the unknown antenna becomes known. The problem from my perspective is the experiment is difficult for anyone else to reproduce. Jeff Vollin KC6WFU On Mon Jul 24 08:23:22 2000, "TAPR Special Interest Group" wrote: > Brian Kirby wrote: > > > > How can one check phase center on a antenna? > > > > I have 3 Oncores, 2 portable antennas, and one permanent base antenna. > > > > By running all the GPS off of the base antenna, I can see the difference of > > the individual gps. This position is not surveyed. > > > > Down the road, I have two NGS benchmarks about a mile apart. I thought > > about setting up an antenna at each benchmark and rotating all three GPS > > thru a test, recording two at a time (combination would be six test) and > > then post processing the data. > > > > Will this type of test give me the data I am looking for ? > > Gerry Mader at NGS does this as someth9ing between a living and a > religion. Check out the antenna pages under research at > http://www.grdl.noaa.gov/GRD/GPS/Projects/ANTCAL/ > to see what he has for results. > > In general, one test antenna is compared to a "gold standard" antenna. > Survey grade measurements are made and the results lead to determination > of phase center. It's not going to be necessarily easy using NGS > monuments, as you need stable platforms for the work. If you'd like to > discuss this more, let's do it off-line, unless there's sig-level > interest for a tutorial on this... > > 73, gerry > -- > Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu > Network Engineering |Research focusing on > Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and > Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control > 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: BARNIE@FLASH.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 09:21:14 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA12027 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:21:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:20:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: From: barnie@flash.net Organization: FlashNet Communications X-Sender: barnie@flash.net MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: tacgps digest: May 22, 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200007241420.JAA00352@bunyip.flash.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >From my observations, there may be one additional reason to still use differential. I have seen the SPS data and DGPS data give nearly the same RMS error, when measured over a couple week timespan. However, the SPS data has some nasty long-term correlation to it which means averages do not settle down. DGPS on the other hand has errors that are more like white (well, really pink) noise and hence they average out rather well. So, if you want position determined to less than 1 meter, and you do not want to go to carrier phase techniques, the best way is averaging DGPS. Of course, below 1 m, you will have to be very careful about the datum. Jeff Vollin KC6WFU On Mon Jul 24 08:17:18 2000, "TAPR Special Interest Group" wrote: > > "Kirby, Brian" wrote: > > > > Now that its summer, the only DGPS I can run, is if I generate it (I > > am 129 miles from the nearest DGPS beacon, its too noisy in the > > summer). Using a Oncore VP and sending corrections out once a second, > > a Oncore tracks it very tight. When I send it to a Garmin 12XL, I > > noticed the EPE jumps from 12-16 to somewhere in the 24-30 foot > > range. Dr. Clark informed that was due to generating 8 channels of > > DGPS reference vs 12 channels needed. > > If the Garmin is not using the same satellites in its position > determination that are being reported by the DGPS station, there will > not be a demonstrable improvement. It's been my experience that, > really, you have 7-9 satellites in your sky most of the time, with > periodic dips to 3-4 (rarely 3...) and occasional peaks to as many as 13 > (I've seen that exactly once). Thus, an 8 channel DGPS generator should > be adequate. Most of the time. If some of your pseudoranges are > corrected and some not, then your position may well vary from truth. > Thus, it's always better to have a DGPS receiver capable of > "all-in-view" generation, but again, 8 channels is usually enough. > > I've not gotten enough solid information to be certain, but have been > told by reliable sources that the EPE Garmin generates is not > necessarily gospel. From my perspective, the only way to determine > error is to compare it to a well-surveyed point and go on from there. > > > From what I have seen, DGPS is not needed unless you need a reference > > for post processing. I have logged the Oncores for 2 weeks at a clip > > and the average position is in a 12 ft circuit. I have not logged a > > Garmin, but I use one every day and it takes me to the same place > > every day. > > Depends on what you need and are using it for. If you're doing > high-precision GIS work, it's nice to gleen the extra meter or 2 out of > the solution. If you're doing surveying, it's mandatory. If you're > trying to find one parking space in in the parking lot at the HOSC, > you'd better use it. If you're only trying to find the parking lot... > or even a region therein that's fairly large, DGPS isn't needed. > > I also suspect (and remember? from here?) that the Garmin receivers are > a bit noisier than the OnCores. That'll contribute to your error budget > as well. > 73, gerry > -- > Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu, gerry@page4.cs.tamu.edu > Network Engineering |Research focusing on > Computer Science Department |Satellite Geodesy and > Texas A&M University |Geodetic Control > 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: BARNIE@FLASH.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 10:19:24 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA21395 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:19:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:18:40 Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Bruce Block" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk I would be interested in more information in this area. A related topic is how well does an inexpensive antenna, e.g. Tri-M Skymaster on a ground plane, compare with an expensive "survey grade" Dorne-Margolin on a choke- ring ground plane with respect to multipath rejection. Actual measurements from a facility like NGS's would be very interesting. 73, Bruce W8XN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 10:38:44 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA24786 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:38:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Kirby, Brian" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:34:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFF584.AD20A830" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF584.AD20A830 Content-Type: text/plain I can say this much, a choke ring helps. I ran the Motorola Antenna 97 on ground planes and homemade choke rings. I noticed less extorsion with the choke ring. The choke ring is basically 2 inch deep baking pans, and uses 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch diameter pans. > ---------- > From: Bruce Block[SMTP:bpblock@umich.edu] > Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 5:18 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center > > I would be interested in more information in this > area. A related topic is how well does an inexpensive > antenna, e.g. Tri-M Skymaster on a ground plane, compare > with an expensive "survey grade" Dorne-Margolin on a choke- > ring ground plane with respect to multipath rejection. > Actual measurements from a facility like NGS's would be very > interesting. > > 73, Bruce W8XN > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF584.AD20A830 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center

I can say this much, = a choke ring helps.  I ran the Motorola Antenna 97 on ground = planes and homemade choke rings.  I noticed less extorsion with = the choke ring.  The choke ring is basically 2 inch deep baking = pans, and uses 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch diameter pans.

    ----------
    From:   = Bruce = Block[SMTP:bpblock@umich.edu]
    Reply To: =       TAPR Special Interest Group
    Sent:   = Monday, July 24, 2000 5:18 = AM
    To: =     TAPR Special = Interest Group
    Subject: =        [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center

    I would be interested in more = information in this
    area.  A related topic is how = well does an inexpensive
    antenna, e.g. Tri-M Skymaster on a = ground plane, compare
    with an expensive "survey = grade" Dorne-Margolin on a choke-
    ring ground plane with respect to = multipath rejection.
    Actual measurements from a facility = like NGS's would be very
    interesting.

    73, Bruce W8XN

    ---
    You are currently subscribed to = tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov
    To unsubscribe send a blank email to = leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF584.AD20A830-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 10:51:23 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA27649 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:51:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: 24 Jul 2000 11:52:22 -0400 Message-ID: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org From: Bruce Block Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3047284341bpblock@umich.edu> Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id KAA27649 Brian, Thanks for the info. I have been thinking of machining up a choke- ring ground plane like those from Trimble or Ashtech; the NGS site has a good list of dimensions, but your baking pan approach sounds easier. Of course the related question is how much does the antenna itself matter. I think you pay a lot for low-angle pattern dropoff, but maybe not. Know of any place to get a DM C146 cheap? 73, Bruce On 7/24/00, Kirby, Brian wrote: >RE: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center >I can say this much, a choke ring helps.  I ran the Motorola Antenna >97 on ground planes and homemade choke rings.  I noticed less extorsion >with the choke ring.  The choke ring is basically 2 inch deep baking >pans, and uses 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch diameter pans. >---------- >From:   Bruce Block[SMTP:bpblock@umich.edu] >Reply To:       TAPR Special Interest Group >Sent:   Monday, July 24, 2000 5:18 AM >To:     TAPR Special Interest Group >Subject:        [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center >I would be interested in more information in this >area.  A related topic is how well does an inexpensive >antenna, e.g. Tri-M Skymaster on a ground plane, compare >with an expensive "survey grade" Dorne-Margolin on a choke- >ring ground plane with respect to multipath rejection. >Actual measurements from a facility like NGS's would be very >interesting. >73, Bruce W8XN >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: brian.kirby@msfc.nasa.gov >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 11:46:03 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA07701 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:46:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:49:47 -0700 x-sender: ebs@biophysics.lanl.gov From: Brooks Shera To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200007241645.KAA17062@lawyer.lanl.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk My experience is the opposite. For me, an Antenna 97 on a baking pan choke ring (a la Clark) and on flat ground plane performed qualitatively the same. The multipath was estimated by comparing double-differenced code phases with double-differenced carrier phases for the same pair of sats over a period of time. It would be interesting to see an evaluation of the baking pan choke ring by folks with the equipment to do it right. Also, I haven't found a reference that discusses the effectivenes of the fancy machined JPL-type (?) choke rings. Perhaps someone knows of one. Brooks >I can say this much, a choke ring helps. I ran the Motorola Antenna 97 on >ground planes and homemade choke rings. I noticed less extorsion with the >choke ring. The choke ring is basically 2 inch deep baking pans, and uses >4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch diameter pans. > >> ---------- >> From: Bruce Block[SMTP:bpblock@umich.edu] >> Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group >> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 5:18 AM >> To: TAPR Special Interest Group >> Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center >> >> I would be interested in more information in this >> area. A related topic is how well does an inexpensive >> antenna, e.g. Tri-M Skymaster on a ground plane, compare >> with an expensive "survey grade" Dorne-Margolin on a choke- >> ring ground plane with respect to multipath rejection. >> Actual measurements from a facility like NGS's would be very >> interesting. >> >> 73, Bruce W8XN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 11:50:05 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA08439 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:50:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:49:38 -0400 From: Boyd Prestwood K5YKG X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397C73A2.46C936E6@bellatlantic.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Gerry Creager N5JXS wrote: > > Brian Kirby wrote: > > > > How can one check phase center on a antenna? > If you'd like to > discuss this more, let's do it off-line, unless there's sig-level > interest for a tutorial on this... > > 73, gerry I'd like to monitor the discussion on this. It seems to be highly and appropriately on-topic for this SIG. Please keep it here if you can. Thanks es 73 de Boyd K5YKG Southern New Jersey for now. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 13:52:54 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA02049 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:52:54 -0500 (CDT) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:51:53 -0500 From: Gerry Creager Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <397C9049.8AF4B1F@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk barnie@flash.net wrote: > > Gerry: > I think there may be general interest in this topic. I am > interested for one. If there is too much text for the > group, perhaps you could point us to web references or put > the text at an FTP site. > > Regarding the phase center, would not the NGS method actually > only give the delta between the phase center of the golden > antenna and the antenna under test? I was under the impression > that the only absolute antenna cal required an anechoic chamber > and GPS simulator hardware. Of course, given the "golden" antenna > phase center is no doubt known to high precision, the end result > is the phase center of the unknown antenna becomes known. The > problem from my perspective is the experiment is difficult for > anyone else to reproduce. Let me generate some comments and run 'em by Dr. Mader, then I'l release them. Couple of days, in my spare time, while I'm travelling;-) Gerry -- Gerry Creager | Never ascribe to Malice that Computer Science Department | which can adequately be Texas A&M University | explained by Stupidity. 979.458.4020 (Phone) | -- Lazerus Long 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 24 20:54:20 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA14145 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:54:18 -0500 (CDT) From: W4OQM@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:53:30 EDT Subject: [tacgps] Re: Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/24/2000 6:27:33 AM, you wrote: >If you'd like to discuss this more, let's do it off-line, unless there's sig-level >interest for a tutorial on this... > Keep this discussion on line. I'm interested. Charlie -- W4OQM c.wells@ieee.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 25 02:21:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA09320 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 02:21:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:23:40 -0700 From: Henry Lesovsky MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397D407B.6C61FC1E@earthlink.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk FWIW Pete, I ordered the Longitude DVD. A&E's "Electronic Shopping Cart" adds tax on shipping. The printed invoice lists shipping separately. California Tax Code specifies that no sales tax shall be collected on shipping when the shipping charges are separately stated. Presently, I am in a shouting match with A&E on the issue. Les Lesovsky in Alhambra, CA Pete Prossen wrote: > I taped Longitude for rescheduled viewing rather than try to stay on the > couch for 4 hours. > > But it is so heavily polluted with commercials that the continuity of this > great story is lost. And I know this will get worse further in to the > story. > > The DVD is available, delivered and with tax, for $49.46. But that's beyond > my threshold of price resistance to watch even this fine presentation. > > Is there anyone in the North San Diego County area that would like to share > ownership with me? > > Pete Prossen > WA6ZUH > prossen@znet.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lexmd@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jul 25 02:38:38 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA10766 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 02:38:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:37:46 -0700 From: Henry Lesovsky MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397D43C9.42E9A4F0@earthlink.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Ira A. Wilner wrote: snip > Weren't early ships clocks wall mounted devices, No, none were and still aren't stationary. They are portable so that they can be calibrated off the ship. Specifically, Harrison's H4 was a large precison watch made to his specs by John Arnold. Harrison had Arnold make the watch as a portable precision timepiece to carry about for calibrating his clocks! The design was so perfect that it became the proto type for other than Harrison. Yes there is/was an H5 but thought to never have been completed. Les Lesovsky in Alhambra, CA --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 26 11:45:49 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA03578 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:45:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Envelope-From: prossen@znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: From: "Pete Prossen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:21:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002b01bff655$2dbd58a0$0842a7cf@acerdesktop> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the tip, Les. I will order it by telephone so I can start my argument before I give them my credit card number. Regards Pete Prossen prossen@znet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Henry Lesovsky To: TAPR Special Interest Group Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 12:23 AM Subject: [tacgps] Re: Longitude Reminder > FWIW Pete, I ordered the Longitude DVD. A&E's > "Electronic Shopping Cart" adds tax on shipping. > The printed invoice lists shipping separately. California > Tax Code specifies that no sales tax shall be collected > on shipping when the shipping charges are separately > stated. Presently, I am in a shouting match with A&E > on the issue. > Les Lesovsky in Alhambra, CA > > Pete Prossen wrote: > > > I taped Longitude for rescheduled viewing rather than try to stay on the > > couch for 4 hours. > > > > But it is so heavily polluted with commercials that the continuity of this > > great story is lost. And I know this will get worse further in to the > > story. > > > > The DVD is available, delivered and with tax, for $49.46. But that's beyond > > my threshold of price resistance to watch even this fine presentation. > > > > Is there anyone in the North San Diego County area that would like to share > > ownership with me? > > > > Pete Prossen > > WA6ZUH > > prossen@znet.com > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lexmd@earthlink.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: PROSSEN@ZNET.COM > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 26 11:48:29 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA04067 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:48:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Steven R. Bible" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] ARRL and TAPR 19th Annual Digital Communications Conference Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:29:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ARRL and TAPR 19th Annual Digital Communications Conference September 22-24, 2000 - Orlando, Florida For more information see: http://www.tapr.org/dcc Information Mark your calendar and start making plans to attend the year's premier event in digital communications. The 19th Annual ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference will be held September 22-24, 2000, in Orlando, Florida - just minutes from the Orlando International Airport. The ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference is an international forum for radio amateurs in digital communications, networking, and related technologies to meet, publish their work, and present new ideas and techniques for discussion. Presenters and attendees will have the opportunity to exchange ideas and learn about recent hardware and software advances, theories, experimental results, and practical applications. The Digital Communications Conference is not just for the digital expert, but also for digitally oriented amateurs of all levels of experience. A Conference for the Beginner as well The conference is not just for the digital expert. As in years past an entire session strand with beginning, intermediate, and advanced presentations on selected topics in digital communications will be offered. Some of the topics will include: APRS, Satellite Communications, TCP/IP, Digital Radio, Spread Spectrum and other introductory topics. Come to the conference and hear these topics presented by the experts! Area Attractions The Orlando Florida area is famous for its attractions and vacation spots. Disney World, Universal Studios, and Sea World (just to name a few) are within 15 minutes of the hotel. Shuttle service from the hotel will be available for a small fee. Cape Canaveral and Cocoa Beach are a 30 minute drive East of the hotel. Symposia, Seminars and Banquet Two symposia/seminars will be held which allow those with additional time and interest to make the most of the Conference. For those who may have interest in just one symposium or seminar, registration for the conference is not required to attend these activities. This allows maximum flexibility for those who may want to participate during the Digital Communications Conference, but do not have an entire weekend to devote to the event. The Fourth APRS National Symposium will be held on Friday and will be moderated by Steve Dimse, K4HG (the developer of javAPRS). It will likely include many APRS software authors, such as Bob Bruninga, WB4APR (the father ofAPRS), Keith Sproul, WU2Z, Mark Sproul, KB2ICI (the developers of MacAPRS and WinAPRS), Brent Hildebrand, KH2Z (the developer of APRSPLUS), Mike Musick, N0QBF (developer of PocketAPRS), and other nationally known APRS leaders. Join this group for the afternoon and evening for in-depth discussions and presentations on the current and future status of APRS. This is a unique opportunity to gain insight into this fast-growing digital aspect of amateur operations that combines computers, packet radio, and GPS (Global Positioning System). On Saturday night the DCC Banquet will be held. A guest speaker will speak after the banquet and a prize drawing will top the evening. The Grand Prize is a Palm VII Personal Digital Assistant. The Sunday morning seminar will be focused on PIC development, design, and programming. This five-and-a-half hour seminar will focus on the things you need to know now in order to understand and begin to participate in PIC development. Co-Hosts The 2000 ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference local co- hosts will be Lake Monroe Amateur Radio Society (http://www.qsl.net/lmars/),Orange County ARES/RACES(http://evcom.net/~jvoisin/ares.htm), Seminole County ARES/RACES (http://wwww.geocities.com/capecanaveral/launchpad/4773), and Orlando Amateur Radio Club(http://www.oarc.org/). International Co-Hosts PRUG (Packet Radio User Group of Japan) will be the International co-host for a third year running. PRUG will be hosting an informal social Friday evening before their seminar and symposium is held. Visit http://www.prug.or.jp for more information about PRUG. Call for Papers Anyone interested in digital communications is invited to submit a paper for publication in the Conference Proceedings. Presentation at the Conference is not required for publication. Papers are due by August 7th, 2000, and should be submitted to Maty Weinberg, ARRL 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 or via the Internet to lweinberg@arrl.org Information on paper submission guidelines are available on-line at http://www.tapr.org/dcc Hotel Conference presentations, meetings, and seminars will be held at the Orlando Airport Marriott. It is highly recommended that you book your room prior to arriving. A special DCC room rate of $89/single and $89/double per night has been blocked for 50 rooms and is available until September 1st, 2000. Once the 50 rooms have been reserved, room rates will increase. So be sure to book your rooms early! The hotel provides transportation to and from the Orlando International Airport. Please contact the hotel to arrange specific transportation needs. Orlando Airport Marriott (conference hotel) 7499 Augusta Drive Orlando, FL 32822 Phone 407-851-9000, Fax 407-857-6211 (http://marriotthotels.com/MCOAP/) What you can expect at DCC 2000 - A full day of papers and breakouts for the beginner to the advanced - Two seminars/symposiums - The fifth annual Student Paper session. - A banquet with Special Guest Speaker. - Informal get-togethers throughout the weekend. - TAPR Membership Meeting - An event at which the most important new developments in amateur digital communications are announced. - Digital 'movers and shakers' from all over the world in attendance. There are few activities where your participation can be so much fun and important! What a great way to share and renew your enthusiasm for digital amateur radio! A get-together with colleagues and bringing each other up to date on your latest work -- all this, and more, for an unforgettable weekend of amateur radio and digital communications. We hope to see you at the ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference on September 22-24, 2000! Full information on the conference and hotel information can be obtained by contacting: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Phone: (940) 383-0000. Fax: (940) 566-2544 Email: tapr@tapr.org Web: http://www.tapr.org Registration Form Contact the TAPR office by Phone 940-383-0000, Fax 940-566-2544, or Internet: http://www.tapr.org and tapr@tapr.org to register or for additional information. Conference Registration includes: Conference Proceedings, Sessions, Meetings, and Lunch on Saturday. Mail completed registration form with check to: TAPR 8987-309 E Tanque Verde Rd #3378 Tucson, AZ 85749-9399 Or check http://www.tapr.org/dcc for an on-line registration form. A registration packet will be mailed in September upon receipt of registration form and payment. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 26 12:09:02 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA07716 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:09:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:07:30 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397E47E2.19D243B@clark.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk In addition to Jerry Mader's work, you might be interested in looking at some of the results that Bruce Schupler and I have produced over the past ten+ years. Our approach has been to make "absolute" phase center measurements using an anechoic chamber. You can see one of our recent publications (presented at the Spring 99 AGU meeting) at ftp://tac.gsfc.nasa.gov/pub/agu-ant99.DOC This includes some data on my original "pie-pan" choke ring prototype that may be of interest. In our most recent session I did perform a full set of pahse center measurements on the Motorola ANT99 antenna (including one mounted in my new "pie-pan" choke rings with one more ring than in the AGU paper) and a couple of other low-cost antennas. Also included were several new geodetic antennas, including all the Javads and Leicas. Sorry that those results aren't ready to show yet -- We accumulated several tens of gigabytes of data on 40+ antennas with full complex data taken every [2 deg(elev)]*[5 deg (azimuth)]*[with / without radomes]*[up to 140 frequencies to get group delays over both GPS and GLONASS and the new L5 frequency]. It has been slow getting that multi-dimension mess untangled (the data is intrinsically sorted in the worst possible order, and the fellow who wrote the LabView data acquisition code for the range left!). Just so you have a feeling about these measurements. For some years we have used one standard antenna (the "zebra" in the AGU paper) and it has repeated at the 1-2 mm level every time it is tested. Hope this helps -- 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 26 14:24:40 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA02046 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:24:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:23:59 Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Bruce Block" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk Dr. Clark: Thanks for a very interesting set of measurements. Your "pie-pan" design does very well indeed. One question occurs about construction techniques, though, which is how well bonded (electrically) do the rings need to be to the bottom plate. Do they need to be bonded continuously about their bottom interface, or could it be done at a number of points, e.g. soldering flex PCB to a PCB bottom plane? Or bolting an aluminum or steel ring at points about its circumference? This question doesn't arise for the "expensive" CRGPs since they are probably machined from a solid billet of aluminum. Likewise, does the thickness of the ring matter much? The original JPL design had something like 1/8" thick rings, I think. 73, Bruce W8XN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jul 26 23:56:55 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id XAA07591 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:56:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:55:01 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <397FC0A5.5E5730E2@clark.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Block wrote: > Thanks for a very interesting set of measurements. Your "pie-pan" > design does very well indeed. One question occurs about construction > techniques, though, which is how well bonded (electrically) do the > rings need to be to the bottom plate. Do they need to be bonded > continuously about their bottom interface, or could it be done at a > number of points, e.g. soldering flex PCB to a PCB bottom plane? Or > bolting an aluminum or steel ring at points about its circumference? > This question doesn't arise for the "expensive" CRGPs since they are > probably machined from a solid billet of aluminum. Likewise, does the > thickness of the ring matter much? The original JPL design had > something like 1/8" thick rings, I think. Let me describe my choke-ring antenna. I have some photos on my other FTP site, so please refer to the URL ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/antennas/ Start with the photo parts.jpg -- The basic design has a Motorola ANT97 sitting on a 4" diameter center piece that is in reality a standard round or octagonal outlet box. In the center you will see a hardware store 5/8-11 threaded insert, chosen because 5/8-11 is the thread associated with standard surveying instruments. The choke rings are 6", 8" & 10" in diameter, 2" deep. The depth wants to be a quarter-wavelength, and in cross-section we make a shorted quarter-wave transmission line, with the short on the "bottom". The actual antenna I decided was the best used 2" deep galvanized steel air conditioning duct caps from the local hardware store for the 6" and 8" rings, and the outer 10" ring was a steel baking dish, coated with something that may have been Teflon. Ignore the 8" and 10" baking pans in the upper right corner. Now go to the photo holes.jpg, which shows the next step of the assembly. The center hole thru all the layers is 5/8" in diameter, done with an old Greenlee punch that was used to punch sockets for 7-pin glow-FETs (i.e. tubes) in the bygone days of yore. The smaller holes are all 1/8" in diameter for pop rivets. The extra 5/8 hole allows the BNC coax connector to get to the outside world. The photo choke_asm.jpg shows how the pieces fit together. The different layers need to have RF contact, but I still wanted the antenna to be rust-proof. So all the galvanized sheet metal pieces were painted with zinc rust-proof paint. A layer or 2 was put on the pieces, then they were pop riveted together. I figured that there would be some ohmic contact, but the capacity of two layers of metal separated by paint was good enough. You can see the painted antenna all assembled sitting on my surveying tripod in the photo tripod.jpg. After that photo was taken, the entire antenna was put in a 12-13" air-tight plastic cake holder as a radome. I almost used Tupperware but found a better Rubbermaid product at the local supermarket. So the cost of the parts for this antenna was ~$25 at the local hardware store, kitchen store, etc plus the Motorola patch antenna. The Motorola ANT97 is available from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org, $65 less member discount plus shipping) and from Rick (W2GPS, ex WB2TNL) (http://www.cnssys.com/Ordering.html, $49 plus shipping). So the whole project can be done for under $100. In case you are interested, the choke_proto.jpg photo shows the earlier 8" prototype, which is the one that was measured on the range and reported in the paper I noted in my earlier message. You asked about the JPL design -- it was done by Don Sptizmesser many years ago, but the design was adopted by the geodetic community. The rings are 2.50000" deep with a width of 1.00000" and a thickness of 0.1250000 inches. Obviously Don's original engineering was seat-of-the-pants. You can see one of these geodetic antennas at my GODE IGS site near NASA/Goddard in the gode-ant.jpg photo. In the background you will see our 6M VLBI dish (originally mobile, now planted firmly) and the two trailers. My GPS hardware is in the near trailer, and the the other trailer houses the VLBI hardware and the Hydrogen Maser clock. This is where I have done most of the high-accuracy testing of various timing receivers. Atop the tower is a 2M antenna which was used for the original W3IWI-13 amateur DGPS work. The 6_choke_ants.jpg photo is the same one as in the AGU paper. The "zebra" range calibration reference antenna in on the right-hand side with yellow & black stripes. Finally, the two matjaz*.gif drawings are of Matjaz Vidmar's (S53MV)'s GPS quadrifilar helix made out of .141" coax and copper wire. 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Jul 27 10:06:58 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA25078 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:06:08 -0600 x-sender: ebs@biophysics.lanl.gov From: Brooks Shera To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200007271506.JAA03499@lawyer.lanl.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Tom Do you have any data comparing the pie-pan choke ring performance to other simple things like (1) a simple metal ground plane or (2) an absorber (like you used to cover the "cement post" in the AGU article)? I think many folks are interested in multipath reduction, more than angle-averaged phase center data. So parameters like LHP rejection and low-angle signal rejection would be of interest. Brooks --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jul 31 07:15:11 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA25883 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:15:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 7:14:6 Subject: [tacgps] Re: Antenna Testing - Phase Center To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Brian Kirby" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk For those of you who want to see my "choke ring" antennas, you can view them at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~kirbybq/gps . They are 2 inch deep baking pans, using 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch pans. I marked the center of the 6, 8, 10 and 12 inch pans and drilled a 1/4 inch hole in the center. I put a bolt in that hole and then drilled two more holes beside the center hole. I put bolts in the new holes and then removed the bolt in the center hole. I used the center hole to pass the antenna coax thru. I took the center 4 inch pan and marked the center of it and glued the Motorola Antenna97 to the pan with epoxy. I used a black epoxy so the UV would not break it down. I used 1 inch wide rubber bands to hold the antenna in place until the epoxy set. Then I made 1 inch wood block shims spacers and then glued the 4 inch pan to the choke ring again with epoxy and big rubber bands. I made three of these antennas. The unit that became my base station, I used stainless steel hardware, since it would be outside all of the time. The other two antenna, for portable use, I added a section of 3/4 inch square aluminum tubing about 8 inches long to the bottom, again with epoxy. I put the square tubing in a tripod leveling adapter made for laser levels, which provides the mount to the tripods. I have lines scored on the tubing mount, which I lined up with the tripod adapter. Brooks mention that he did nothing special with his antenna's and he was seeing good data. I made some measurements this weekend. I put one antenna on a NGS benchmark about 2 miles from my house and then I put another unit on another NGS benchmark about 5 miles from the first bench mark. I let the units run for 4 hours and recorded carrier phase data at 1 second intervals. I post processed the data as static using float solutions and both benchmarks came up within 3 cm of the benchmarks. The only special attention was to align the tripods and antennas over the benchmarks. I must have spent about 10 minutes with plumb bobs, trying to get them dead on... My antennas "choke rings" cost under $30 at a bake shop. Not bad performance, considering the cost of each assembled antenna is under $100 each counting the Antenna97! --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org