From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 9 17:27:28 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA03395 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:27:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:17:11 -0400 From: "John R. Ackermann" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] 2002 Digital BASH at Dayton Hamvention Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <77763538.1018376231@[192.168.1.26]> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Going to the Dayton Hamvention? Then plan to attend the annual Digital*BASH sponsored by TAPR and the Miami Valley FM Association to be held on Friday, May 17, 2002! For reservations, please contact the TAPR office as described below. ---- What? An event for the digitally-inclined ham, featuring: * Buffet dinner (Prime Rib, Chicken, and Pasta) * Keynote Address (Speaker to be named) * TAPR special interest group meetings * "Birds of a Feather" gatherings When? Friday evening, May 17, 2002 Doors open at 7:00 pm; dinner served at 7:30 pm Speaker and meetings after dinner Where? Kohler's Banquet Center, 4548 Presidential Way, Kettering (39 40.75N, 84 08.43W), about 6 miles SE of downtown Dayton -- just off of East David Road. Detailed directions and maps are available on the TAPR web site (http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdayton.maps.html) or at the TAPR booth. How? Dinner requires advance registration and payment through TAPR. Tickets will be available at the TAPR booth on Friday, though we strongly encourage registration Hamvention. The cost is $25.00 per person, tax and tip included. All amateurs are welcome to attend, enjoy the speaker, and particpate in the meetings, although only those purchasing a dinner can eat. To register, contact: PACK*BASH c/o TAPR 8987-309 E. Tanque Verde Road #337 Tucson, AZ 85749-9399 Phone: 972-671-TAPR (8277) Fax: 972-671-8716 Internet: tapr@tapr.org Visa/Mastercard Accepted Who? PACK*BASH is co-sponsored by TAPR -- Tucson Amateur Packet Radio, the national leader in digital communication -- and the Miami Valley FM Association, Dayton's packet radio club. For more information (including maps), go to http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/dayton.html#packetbash, or send email to tapr@tapr.org. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Apr 19 02:31:13 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA20559 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 02:31:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 2:30:25 Subject: [tacgps] Rubidium Cooling To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Brian Kirby" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-Id: Precedence: bulk Since I got my dividers built a couple of months ago, I have been able to monitor the drift on my rubidium, a FRK unit, against the Motorola Oncore VP gps 1 pps signal. What I have noticed, is the rubidium is temp sensitive, the warmer it runs, the faster I lose time. My rack was averaging around 88 degrees and the rubidium was losing around a microsecond a day. Thats a very expensive therometer. I put a cooling fan in the rack and blocked the airflow in the rack, so it sucks air from the bottom of the rack and exhuast it at the top. The rack is in the basement and the temp goes around 55 degrees in the winter to 70 degrees in the summer. At the present, I have noticed the temp inside of the rack is averaging about 70 to 72 degrees. And now the rubidium is holding parts in the 12th. I have pondered a idea of maybe using some of the water cooling heat exchangers for computers to regulate the temp of the rubidium. I notice that several units are avilable that have pumps that run off of 12 volts, and thats lends itself to running off of the back up batteries. Any pro's and con's are welcomed. 73s - KD4FMN - Brian --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Apr 19 16:46:04 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA06543 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:46:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: dhaselwood@POP3.ij.net Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:43:10 -0400 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Donald E Haselwood Subject: [tacgps] Re: Rubidium Cooling In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020419174310.007e8b70@POP3.ij.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Brian, Is there a reason why you are not pursuing steering the Rb with the OnCore? I just got back to my steering project after a long diversion (everything from taxes on up). This last week I got the Rb steering using what I call a dog-simple hardware scheme and it works fine. Not having a better reference than gps, I can't really say what stability I'm achieving. My guess is that getting the ultimate performance requires both temp control to hold the short-term (such as the daily temp cycle) and gps for the longer term. I've thought about schemes for controlling the temp, however I checked the temp I found the air condx maintains the Rb in the 79 - 82 deg F range over the 24 hour cycle. Consequently, controlling the Rb temp has been low on the "project list." Rather than work with cooling, it would seem that placing the Rb in a metal box, possibly with a fan to transfer heat from the Rb to the box, then holding the box at a constant temp slightly above the highest ambient, such as 72 deg F in your case, would be a way of maintaining constant temp at the Rb. At our previous QTH the dewpoint in the summer exceeded the ground temp and the walls of the basement would sweat, so cooling would not have been a good approach in that environment. Don, W4DH At 02:30 AM 4/19/02, you wrote: >Since I got my dividers built a couple of months ago, I have been able to >monitor the drift on my rubidium, a FRK unit, against the Motorola Oncore >VP gps 1 pps signal. What I have noticed, is the rubidium is temp >sensitive, the warmer it runs, the faster I lose time. My rack was >averaging around 88 degrees and the rubidium was losing around a >microsecond a day. Thats a very expensive therometer. > >I put a cooling fan in the rack and blocked the airflow in the rack, so it >sucks air from the bottom of the rack and exhuast it at the top. The rack >is in the basement and the temp goes around 55 degrees in the winter to 70 >degrees in the summer. At the present, I have noticed the temp inside of >the rack is averaging about 70 to 72 degrees. And now the rubidium is >holding parts in the 12th. > >I have pondered a idea of maybe using some of the water cooling heat >exchangers for computers to regulate the temp of the rubidium. I notice >that several units are avilable that have pumps that run off of 12 volts, >and thats lends itself to running off of the back up batteries. > >Any pro's and con's are welcomed. 73s - KD4FMN - Brian > >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: dhaselwood@ij.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Apr 19 20:29:05 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA15905 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:29:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:27:49 -0700 From: dan hinz X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Rubidium Cooling References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3CC0C415.F998BD11@ieee.org> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk For cooling, I would try a Peltier Junction an "electronic heat pump". I've never used one, but they look very interesting. One place that you can buy them is from www.allelectronics.com. I agree with the statements below on setting it just above the max expected or even just below the min expected temperature. By setting it to an extreme, it probably simplifies the control circuitry. Max temperature should minimize energy consumption. Good Luck, Dan - W6LSN Donald E Haselwood wrote: > Brian, > > Is there a reason why you are not pursuing steering the Rb with the OnCore? > > I just got back to my steering project after a long diversion (everything > from taxes on up). This last week I got the Rb steering using what I call > a dog-simple hardware scheme and it works fine. Not having a better > reference than gps, I can't really say what stability I'm achieving. > > My guess is that getting the ultimate performance requires both temp > control to hold the short-term (such as the daily temp cycle) and gps for > the longer term. I've thought about schemes for controlling the temp, > however I checked the temp I found the air condx maintains the Rb in the 79 > - 82 deg F range over the 24 hour cycle. Consequently, controlling the Rb > temp has been low on the "project list." > > Rather than work with cooling, it would seem that placing the Rb in a metal > box, possibly with a fan to transfer heat from the Rb to the box, then > holding the box at a constant temp slightly above the highest ambient, such > as 72 deg F in your case, would be a way of maintaining constant temp at > the Rb. At our previous QTH the dewpoint in the summer exceeded the ground > temp and the walls of the basement would sweat, so cooling would not have > been a good approach in that environment. > > Don, W4DH > > At 02:30 AM 4/19/02, you wrote: > >Since I got my dividers built a couple of months ago, I have been able to > >monitor the drift on my rubidium, a FRK unit, against the Motorola Oncore > >VP gps 1 pps signal. What I have noticed, is the rubidium is temp > >sensitive, the warmer it runs, the faster I lose time. My rack was > >averaging around 88 degrees and the rubidium was losing around a > >microsecond a day. Thats a very expensive therometer. > > > >I put a cooling fan in the rack and blocked the airflow in the rack, so it > >sucks air from the bottom of the rack and exhuast it at the top. The rack > >is in the basement and the temp goes around 55 degrees in the winter to 70 > >degrees in the summer. At the present, I have noticed the temp inside of > >the rack is averaging about 70 to 72 degrees. And now the rubidium is > >holding parts in the 12th. > > > >I have pondered a idea of maybe using some of the water cooling heat > >exchangers for computers to regulate the temp of the rubidium. I notice > >that several units are avilable that have pumps that run off of 12 volts, > >and thats lends itself to running off of the back up batteries. > > > >Any pro's and con's are welcomed. 73s - KD4FMN - Brian > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: dhaselwood@ij.net > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: DAN.HINZ@IEEE.ORG > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Apr 19 22:29:57 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA20688 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:29:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "Tom Clark \(W3IWI\)" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:29:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <004001c1e81b$920b4e20$0200a8c0@tomcat> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Remember that there are reasons that there are reasons the Rb runs hot. The main is that the Rb lamp is hot by its very nature. Then in a properly designed system, the xtal will be cut to make use of this as an oven. If you try to suck out too much heat, the thermal controller in the Rb will just have to work that much harder to make up for the heat you are extracting. The best thing is to try to keep the temperature around it constant. I'd put the Rb in an insulated temp chamber to isolate it from the outside world. I have used a cardboard box and some "OK to be warm" insulating material so that the room's air conditioner doesn't induce changes. But keep the temperature stable! If you put it in a box, affix some sort of temp monitor. I use the iButton (Dallas Semi/Maxim) DS1921 logger and DS1920 or 18S20 one-wire devices here. I'd also watch the current feeding the Rb. There will be a high "cold" value which will throttle back when the oven warms up. You want to minimize the amount of time that the oven is ON by watching for variations in the supply current. The typical Efratom M100 is quite happy with the small heat sink that comes with them. I've also just bolted them to a large thermal mass (aluminum plate) inside the "oven". To use a Peltier pump to cool it, and then make the oven run more only helps those who want to use more fossil fuels! Save a tree -- 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Apr 20 03:51:21 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id DAA18359 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: markm@192.168.0.20 Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:50:33 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Mark Miller Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020420034650.023389c0@192.168.0.20> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk My Efratom FRK-C2 does not have a heat sink, but there is a place to mount one. Does anyone know where I can buy just a heat sink for this Rb osc ? 73 Mark N5RFX At 23:29 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote: >Remember that there are reasons that there are reasons the Rb runs hot. The >main is that the Rb lamp is hot by its very nature. Then in a properly >designed system, the xtal will be cut to make use of this as an oven. > >If you try to suck out too much heat, the thermal controller in the Rb will >just have to work that much harder to make up for the heat you are >extracting. > >The best thing is to try to keep the temperature around it constant. I'd put >the Rb in an insulated temp chamber to isolate it from the outside world. I >have used a cardboard box and some "OK to be warm" insulating material so >that the room's air conditioner doesn't induce changes. But keep the >temperature stable! > >If you put it in a box, affix some sort of temp monitor. I use the iButton >(Dallas Semi/Maxim) DS1921 logger and DS1920 or 18S20 one-wire devices here. >I'd also watch the current feeding the Rb. There will be a high "cold" value >which will throttle back when the oven warms up. You want to minimize the >amount of time that the oven is ON by watching for variations in the supply >current. > >The typical Efratom M100 is quite happy with the small heat sink that comes >with them. I've also just bolted them to a large thermal mass (aluminum >plate) inside the "oven". > >To use a Peltier pump to cool it, and then make the oven run more only helps >those who want to use more fossil fuels! Save a tree -- 73, Tom > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: markm@kramrellim.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Apr 20 08:38:17 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA25804 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:38:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Robert Smith" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:37:39 -0400 Organization: Smith Machine Works, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <004c01c1e870$8b15fde0$dc123841@norman> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Lots of heat sinks at http://www.digikey.com . Bob Smith --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 bobsmith5@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Miller" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 4:50 AM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling > My Efratom FRK-C2 does not have a heat sink, but there is a place to mount > one. Does anyone know where I can buy just a heat sink for this Rb osc ? > > 73 > Mark N5RFX > > At 23:29 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Remember that there are reasons that there are reasons the Rb runs hot. The > >main is that the Rb lamp is hot by its very nature. Then in a properly > >designed system, the xtal will be cut to make use of this as an oven. > > > >If you try to suck out too much heat, the thermal controller in the Rb will > >just have to work that much harder to make up for the heat you are > >extracting. > > > >The best thing is to try to keep the temperature around it constant. I'd put > >the Rb in an insulated temp chamber to isolate it from the outside world. I > >have used a cardboard box and some "OK to be warm" insulating material so > >that the room's air conditioner doesn't induce changes. But keep the > >temperature stable! > > > >If you put it in a box, affix some sort of temp monitor. I use the iButton > >(Dallas Semi/Maxim) DS1921 logger and DS1920 or 18S20 one-wire devices here. > >I'd also watch the current feeding the Rb. There will be a high "cold" value > >which will throttle back when the oven warms up. You want to minimize the > >amount of time that the oven is ON by watching for variations in the supply > >current. > > > >The typical Efratom M100 is quite happy with the small heat sink that comes > >with them. I've also just bolted them to a large thermal mass (aluminum > >plate) inside the "oven". > > > >To use a Peltier pump to cool it, and then make the oven run more only helps > >those who want to use more fossil fuels! Save a tree -- 73, Tom > > > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: markm@kramrellim.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: bobsmith5@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Apr 20 10:37:50 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA01286 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:37:45 -0500 (CDT) To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:37:19 -0500 (CDT) From: kirbybq@hiwaay.net References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <1019317039.3cc18b2fd2512@mail.hiwaay.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk For Dan: Peltier junctions were out of the question - too much power draw considering the battery backup system. My battery system is set up to hold the system up for 48 hours. Current drawn by system is around 500 ma/hr after the rubdium is warmed up. I use 28 a/h batteries and if I go much bigger, they would have to go outdoors. For Mark: The rubidium heatsink is not very big. Its a little over 1/8 inch thick at the base and fits over the end where the frequency ajustment access is. It has 12 fins, 6 on the left side and 6 on the right side. The fins are around 1/8 thich, with about the same for spacing in between. They are about 3/4 of an inch long. The center of the heatsink has not fins. For Donald: I have reservations on disciplining the rubidium against GPS, as have never seen any performace data on the rubidium after modification. I do not have long term access to a cesium or maser to compare it after modification. WHile I'm sure that it works in the long term, I am specifically concerned with what it does in the short term. If you look at Allan variances for GPS vs. rubidium, the rubidium has much better short term stability, until you reach an elasped time of 10,000 seconds or so. A lot of rubidiums are better than a normal cesium as far as short term stability in the range of 100 to 1000 seconds. Temp is the worst environmental effect on the FRK rubidium. Its rated to hold 1-E9 from -25C to 65C. What I found from my recorded data, is if I can hold it at 70F, its very stable - in low parts of -E12. I appreciate everybody's comments - Dr Clark hit it on the head. I need to determine the temp where the heaters are at minimum operation and the maximum temp to stabilize it considering the ambient environment. Sounds like I need to retain the heat inside of the unit. My thought is to wrap the unit with some of the foam backed foil insulation and leave the heat sink exposed. Then a temp proportional control fan circuit mounted away from the heatsink, so it works without cooling, and when needed the fan comes in slowly, so the temp does not change fast. Maybe a current sense circuit, so the fan cannot come on when the heaters are running. Thanks - 73s - KD4FMN - Brian Be sure to listen for the Northeast Alabama 6M club on 50.150 Mhz, Monday thru Friday at 9PM Central time when the band opens. webpage at http://www.neasmn.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Apr 21 11:32:22 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA23266 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:32:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: dhaselwood@POP3.ij.net Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:29:43 -0400 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Donald E Haselwood Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020421122943.00839e00@POP3.ij.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Brian, >I have reservations on disciplining the rubidium against GPS, as have never >seen any performace data on the rubidium after modification. The modification should not affect the performance. It consists of connecting a wire from junction point in the resistor network that trims the frequency to the connector. I used a small resistor (couple of hundred ohms), rather than a wire, just to add a little protection from blunders, shaky hands, etc. Though the affect of the modification alone would be nil, it is the curiosity that initiates poking around into the other areas that might affect the performance ;) I found that a 33K resistor from the pin to Gnd/+5v gave roughly a +/- 1E-10 control range. Fortuitously, the pin has an equivalent source voltage of 2.7v (and resistance of 265 ohms), so it works well with 5v logic. For a DAC I switch an I/O pin (0 - 5v) on the micro with a pwm duty cycle, which in turn drives a filter of consisting of three 10K resistors, in series, going to the Rb, with two 100 mfd caps. The phase detection is merely the input capture interrupt driven from the gps 1 pps, with the micro's clock driven by the Rb's 10 Mhz. The rest is software... Your focus on the "short term" stability is indeed the key issue. I don't remember if those Allen variance curves were generated pre or post SA on the gps. Anyway, your approach is interesting. Please keep me posted on what you come up with for temp controlling. Don, W4DH --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 02:23:13 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA15600 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:23:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:22:19 +0200 From: "Marius Hauki" Organization: Data Respons User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-10; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3CC3BA2B.9060907@datarespons.no> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related to GPS so please bear with me : We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can be located above ground. The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring to the other station via radio. This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I do not know how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a standard coordinate system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? Even better some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact persons that can help with this will be most welcome. 73 de LA9EEA Marius --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 03:32:06 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id DAA24918 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 03:32:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "Flemming Larsen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:31:10 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001801c1e9d8$0e497f30$afdffc9e@fl1> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hej Marius, For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the information you need. I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and some years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial observations. However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to use calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's sphere). Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude differences, I don't expect that it will be too difficult to calculate the straight- line distance between the two GPS receivers, unless you have extreme situations, such as one receiver being directly above the North Pole, and the other being directly above the South Pole. Here is a web link for calculating distances: http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I find it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. 73, -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > > This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related > to GPS so please bear with me : > > We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in > degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can > be located above ground. > The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring > to the other station via radio. > This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I > do not know > how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. > I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in > ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a > standard coordinate > system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? > Even better > some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact > persons that can > help with this will be most welcome. > > 73 de LA9EEA > Marius > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 08:25:43 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA11403 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:25:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Bert Rathkamp" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:24:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001101c1ea01$1a5c2d80$6401a8c0@main> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Gentlemen, I will probably get my hands slapped over what I am going to say, but that is the way I learn. I am not interested where I am at or what time it is, I just want to know what my frequency is .... I thought for a while the way to go on the cheap for best frequency accuracy was to steer a rubidium clock with the Motorola UT GPS chip. After a long study, OK several hours, looking at "ALLAN VARIANCES" there is very little difference from start up to 10000 seconds stability when using good crystals steered via GPS or Rubidium. The ALLAN VARIANCES charts generally conclude that good crystals steered via GPS or Rubidium will be in the range of 1.E-13 after 24 hours. If you take a GPS steered cheap or good crystal or a rubidium source they will all stabilize to 1.E-11 to 1.E-12 in a little less than 3 hours and a little over 24 hours will stabilize to 1.E-13 and maybe a little better. 1.E-12 is a pico second or a trillionth or the inverse of a tera 1,000,000,000,000,000. Remember the GPS or Rubidium steering devices need a stabilized crystal. Crystals are cheaper! To get the stability crystals need to be held to vary consistent temperatures. Bury them in the ground. A good fence pole digger and 5 feet PVC pipe buried vertically in the ground, do not extend the pipe above ground, is a real stable environment if you put the crystal close to the bottom. You need to go deeper if you live in a real cold climate. Small crystal ovens are more expensive, and they need to be kept in a fairly temperature stable environment, not in front of the heating/airconditioning outlet. Lets look at the crystal stability in another way. Crystals can be used to check small temperature variations with great accuracy, thus the converse can take place by varying temperature the frequency can change. Too bad that the Brooks Shera interface board is no longer available, but I am sure someone will come along to replace the loss. A side bar comment to previous questions. Mini-Circuits make GPS antenna splitters, 2,4,8 for around $60.00. I have not used on yet, but have been told they work very well. Bert Rathkamp W8AE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald E Haselwood" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:29 PM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling > Brian, > > >I have reservations on disciplining the rubidium against GPS, as have never > >seen any performace data on the rubidium after modification. > > The modification should not affect the performance. It consists of > connecting a wire from junction point in the resistor network that trims > the frequency to the connector. I used a small resistor (couple of hundred > ohms), rather than a wire, just to add a little protection from blunders, > shaky hands, etc. Though the affect of the modification alone would be > nil, it is the curiosity that initiates poking around into the other areas > that might affect the performance ;) > > I found that a 33K resistor from the pin to Gnd/+5v gave roughly a +/- > 1E-10 control range. Fortuitously, the pin has an equivalent source > voltage of 2.7v (and resistance of 265 ohms), so it works well with 5v > logic. For a DAC I switch an I/O pin (0 - 5v) on the micro with a pwm duty > cycle, which in turn drives a filter of consisting of three 10K resistors, > in series, going to the Rb, with two 100 mfd caps. The phase detection is > merely the input capture interrupt driven from the gps 1 pps, with the > micro's clock driven by the Rb's 10 Mhz. The rest is software... > > Your focus on the "short term" stability is indeed the key issue. I don't > remember if those Allen variance curves were generated pre or post SA on > the gps. > > Anyway, your approach is interesting. Please keep me posted on what you > come up with for temp controlling. > > > Don, W4DH > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: rathkamp@cinci.rr.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 08:28:46 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA11848 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:28:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:28:05 -0500 From: Gerry Creager N5JXS Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Da House User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-10; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3CC40FE5.3010201@cs.tamu.edu> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I've got all these at the office, and thanks to a dying computer there, I cannot get them from home. I'll look and reply later with specifics. However, you may want to look at http://www.ngs.noaa.gov for the toolbox page, and see what they've got there. The 7-paramater transformation is easy enough for a problem of this sort. gerry -- Marius Hauki wrote: > This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related > to GPS so please bear with me : > > We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in > degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can > be located above ground. > The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring > to the other station via radio. > This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I do not know > how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. > I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in > ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a > standard coordinate > system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? Even better > some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact > persons that can > help with this will be most welcome. > > 73 de LA9EEA > Marius > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org -- -- Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 08:36:07 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA12301 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:36:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:35:47 -0500 From: Gerry Creager N5JXS Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Da House User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3CC411B3.60304@cs.tamu.edu> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk If distances are more than a 'few' km, I fully agree that use of a plane system is problemmatic. However, the conversions are simple enough to allow one to convet directly to cartesian coordinates, calculate a vector, and transform back to the original system. An additional word of caution: All data used for the transformations should originate in WGS84, to make your life simpler. WGS84 represents a relatively objective datum and ellipsoid. Use of some of the older and more subjective systems (NAD27 comes to mind... but there are myriad others) will allow transformation in both directions, but will be less accurate when transforming from subjective to objective datums. gerry -- Flemming Larsen wrote: > Hej Marius, > > For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane > trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical > trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the > information you need. > > I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and some > years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial observations. > > However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the > earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to use > calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's sphere). > > Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude differences, > I don't expect that it will be too difficult to calculate the straight- > line distance between the two GPS receivers, unless you have extreme > situations, such as one receiver being directly above the North Pole, > and the other being directly above the South Pole. > > Here is a web link for calculating distances: > > http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist > > This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I find > it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. > > 73, > > -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >> >>Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates >> >> >>This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related >>to GPS so please bear with me : >> >>We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in >>degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can >>be located above ground. >>The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring >>to the other station via radio. >>This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I >>do not know >>how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. >>I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in >>ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a >>standard coordinate >>system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? >>Even better >>some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact >>persons that can >>help with this will be most welcome. >> >>73 de LA9EEA >>Marius >> >> > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > -- -- Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 12:43:03 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA25699 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:43:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:39:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000e01c1ea24$afef43a0$6400a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Marius, et al There is a program on my webpage www.rt66.com/~shera, under the Surveying section, called GPS Survey Assistant. It will do exactly what you want, plus other things useful for comparing GPS surveying with local surveys. For your purpose just enter the GPS positions of two locations (lat, longitude, altitude) and the Java program will compute the bearing, distance and elevation of the line of site. Actually it computes both the optical line of sight elevation, and the radio line of sight elevation. (The latter uses a larger earth radius to compensate for diffraction and is useful if you are setting up a radio link between two locations.) Let me know if you have any questions. Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Creager N5JXS" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > If distances are more than a 'few' km, I fully agree that use of a plane > system is problemmatic. However, the conversions are simple enough to > allow one to convet directly to cartesian coordinates, calculate a > vector, and transform back to the original system. > > An additional word of caution: All data used for the transformations > should originate in WGS84, to make your life simpler. WGS84 represents > a relatively objective datum and ellipsoid. Use of some of the older > and more subjective systems (NAD27 comes to mind... but there are myriad > others) will allow transformation in both directions, but will be less > accurate when transforming from subjective to objective datums. > > gerry > -- > Flemming Larsen wrote: > > > Hej Marius, > > > > For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane > > trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical > > trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the > > information you need. > > > > I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and some > > years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial observations. > > > > However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the > > earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to use > > calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's sphere). > > > > Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude differences, > > I don't expect that it will be too difficult to calculate the straight- > > line distance between the two GPS receivers, unless you have extreme > > situations, such as one receiver being directly above the North Pole, > > and the other being directly above the South Pole. > > > > Here is a web link for calculating distances: > > > > http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist > > > > This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I find > > it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. > > > > 73, > > > > -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >> > >>Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > >> > >> > >>This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related > >>to GPS so please bear with me : > >> > >>We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in > >>degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can > >>be located above ground. > >>The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring > >>to the other station via radio. > >>This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I > >>do not know > >>how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. > >>I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in > >>ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a > >>standard coordinate > >>system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? > >>Even better > >>some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact > >>persons that can > >>help with this will be most welcome. > >> > >>73 de LA9EEA > >>Marius > >> > >> > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > -- > -- > Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu > Network Engineering > Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies > Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 12:44:45 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA25807 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:44:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:43:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001901c1ea25$44bb4e20$6400a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The last I heard the PCB for my controller design was still available from A&A Engineering (w6ucm@aol.com). If someone has trouble getting the board please let me know. Regards, Brooks. > > Too bad that the Brooks Shera interface board is no longer available, but I > am sure someone will come along to replace the loss. > > A side bar comment to previous questions. Mini-Circuits make GPS antenna > splitters, 2,4,8 for around $60.00. I have not used on yet, but have been > told they work very well. > > Bert Rathkamp W8AE > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Apr 22 15:23:44 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA06174 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:23:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Bert Rathkamp" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:22:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1EA19.F35E2580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001801c1ea3b$7da63860$6401a8c0@main> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1EA19.F35E2580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brooks, Sorry ..... I have tried the Brooks Shera web site www.rt66.com and it says it does = not exisit as per the following and that includes most of last week?=20 The page cannot be found=20 The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name = changed, or is temporarily unavailable.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Please try the following: If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is = spelled correctly. Open the www.rt66.com home page, and then look for links to the = information you want.=20 Click the Back button to try another link.=20 HTTP 404 - File not found Internet Information Services -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Technical Information (for support personnel) More information: Microsoft Support=20 =20 end of message Bert ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 1:43 PM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling > The last I heard the PCB for my controller design was still available = from > A&A Engineering (w6ucm@aol.com). If someone has trouble getting the = board > please let me know. >=20 > Regards, Brooks. >=20 >=20 > > > > Too bad that the Brooks Shera interface board is no longer = available, but > I > > am sure someone will come along to replace the loss. > > > > A side bar comment to previous questions. Mini-Circuits make GPS = antenna > > splitters, 2,4,8 for around $60.00. I have not used on yet, but have = been > > told they work very well. > > > > Bert Rathkamp W8AE > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: rathkamp@cinci.rr.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to = leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1EA19.F35E2580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brooks,
 
Sorry .....
 
I have tried the Brooks Shera web site = www.rt66.com and it says it does not exisit as per the = following and=20 that includes most of last week?
 
The page cannot be found
The page = you are=20 looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is = temporarily=20 unavailable.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------
 
Please try the=20 following:
 
If you typed the page = address in the=20 Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.
 
Open the=20 www.rt66.com home page,=20 and then look for links to the information you want.
Click the Back = button=20 to try another link.
HTTP 404 - File not found
Internet = Information=20 Services
 

----------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------
 
Technical Information (for support=20 personnel)
 
More information:
Microsoft Support=20
 
end of message
 
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks Shera" <ebs@lanl.gov>
To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" = <tacgps@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 1:43 = PM
Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium=20 Cooling

> The last I heard the PCB for my controller design was = still=20 available from
> A&A Engineering (
w6ucm@aol.com).  If = someone has=20 trouble getting the board
> please let me know.
>
> = Regards,=20 Brooks.
>
>
> >
> > Too bad that the = Brooks=20 Shera interface board is no longer available, but
> I
> > = am sure=20 someone will come along to replace the loss.
> >
> > A = side=20 bar comment to previous questions. Mini-Circuits make GPS = antenna
> >=20 splitters, 2,4,8 for around $60.00. I have not used on yet, but have=20 been
> > told they work very well.
> >
> > = Bert=20 Rathkamp  W8AE
> >
> >
>
>
> =
>=20 ---
> You are currently subscribed to tacgps as:
rathkamp@cinci.rr.com
> To=20 unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1EA19.F35E2580-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 23 02:51:45 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA17727 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:51:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:50:44 +0200 From: "Marius Hauki" Organization: Data Respons User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3CC51254.70607@datarespons.no> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks Brooks. I checked the url you gave me, but there is no info there. Could you please check if something has happened with your site or server ? Best regards Marius Brooks Shera wrote: > Hi Marius, et al > > There is a program on my webpage www.rt66.com/~shera, under the Surveying > section, called GPS Survey Assistant. It will do exactly what you want, > plus other things useful for comparing GPS surveying with local surveys. > > For your purpose just enter the GPS positions of two locations (lat, > longitude, altitude) and the Java program will compute the bearing, distance > and elevation of the line of site. Actually it computes both the optical > line of sight elevation, and the radio line of sight elevation. (The latter > uses a larger earth radius to compensate for diffraction and is useful if > you are setting up a radio link between two locations.) Let me know if you > have any questions. > > Brooks > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerry Creager N5JXS" > To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:35 AM > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > > >>If distances are more than a 'few' km, I fully agree that use of a plane >>system is problemmatic. However, the conversions are simple enough to >>allow one to convet directly to cartesian coordinates, calculate a >>vector, and transform back to the original system. >> >>An additional word of caution: All data used for the transformations >>should originate in WGS84, to make your life simpler. WGS84 represents >>a relatively objective datum and ellipsoid. Use of some of the older >>and more subjective systems (NAD27 comes to mind... but there are myriad >>others) will allow transformation in both directions, but will be less >>accurate when transforming from subjective to objective datums. >> >>gerry >>-- >>Flemming Larsen wrote: >> >> >>>Hej Marius, >>> >>>For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane >>>trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical >>>trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the >>>information you need. >>> >>>I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and some >>>years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial observations. >>> >>>However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the >>>earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to use >>>calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's sphere). >>> >>>Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude differences, >>>I don't expect that it will be too difficult to calculate the straight- >>>line distance between the two GPS receivers, unless you have extreme >>>situations, such as one receiver being directly above the North Pole, >>>and the other being directly above the South Pole. >>> >>>Here is a web link for calculating distances: >>> >>> http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist >>> >>>This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I find >>>it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. >>> >>>73, >>> >>>-- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates >>>> >>>> >>>>This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related >>>>to GPS so please bear with me : >>>> >>>>We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in >>>>degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can >>>>be located above ground. >>>>The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring >>>>to the other station via radio. >>>>This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I >>>>do not know >>>>how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. >>>>I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in >>>>ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a >>>>standard coordinate >>>>system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? >>>>Even better >>>>some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact >>>>persons that can >>>>help with this will be most welcome. >>>> >>>>73 de LA9EEA >>>>Marius >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>--- >>>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu >>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org >>> >>> >> >>-- >>-- >>Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu >>Network Engineering >>Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies >>Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org >> >> > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: MARIUS@DATARESPONS.NO > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 23 09:10:56 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA14399 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:10:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Webpage problems Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:09:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001601c1ead0$7a19e8a0$6400a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Sorry about that. My ISP has decided to change servers and seems to be having a lot of trouble with the change over. If they can't get the problem solved soon, I'll switch to another webserver. Does anyone have any suggestions? I tried Crosswinds.net yesterday but they seem to have problems also. Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marius Hauki" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:50 AM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > Thanks Brooks. I checked the url you gave me, but there > is no info there. Could you please check if > something has happened with your site or server ? > > Best regards > Marius > > > Brooks Shera wrote: > > > Hi Marius, et al > > > > There is a program on my webpage www.rt66.com/~shera, under the Surveying > > section, called GPS Survey Assistant. It will do exactly what you want, > > plus other things useful for comparing GPS surveying with local surveys. > > > > For your purpose just enter the GPS positions of two locations (lat, > > longitude, altitude) and the Java program will compute the bearing, distance > > and elevation of the line of site. Actually it computes both the optical > > line of sight elevation, and the radio line of sight elevation. (The latter > > uses a larger earth radius to compensate for diffraction and is useful if > > you are setting up a radio link between two locations.) Let me know if you > > have any questions. > > > > Brooks > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gerry Creager N5JXS" > > To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:35 AM > > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > > > > > > >>If distances are more than a 'few' km, I fully agree that use of a plane > >>system is problemmatic. However, the conversions are simple enough to > >>allow one to convet directly to cartesian coordinates, calculate a > >>vector, and transform back to the original system. > >> > >>An additional word of caution: All data used for the transformations > >>should originate in WGS84, to make your life simpler. WGS84 represents > >>a relatively objective datum and ellipsoid. Use of some of the older > >>and more subjective systems (NAD27 comes to mind... but there are myriad > >>others) will allow transformation in both directions, but will be less > >>accurate when transforming from subjective to objective datums. > >> > >>gerry > >>-- > >>Flemming Larsen wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Hej Marius, > >>> > >>>For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane > >>>trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical > >>>trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the > >>>information you need. > >>> > >>>I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and some > >>>years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial observations. > >>> > >>>However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the > >>>earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to use > >>>calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's sphere). > >>> > >>>Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude differences, > >>>I don't expect that it will be too difficult to calculate the straight- > >>>line distance between the two GPS receivers, unless you have extreme > >>>situations, such as one receiver being directly above the North Pole, > >>>and the other being directly above the South Pole. > >>> > >>>Here is a web link for calculating distances: > >>> > >>> http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist > >>> > >>>This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I find > >>>it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. > >>> > >>>73, > >>> > >>>-- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>> > >>>>Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related > >>>>to GPS so please bear with me : > >>>> > >>>>We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in > >>>>degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers can > >>>>be located above ground. > >>>>The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring > >>>>to the other station via radio. > >>>>This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I > >>>>do not know > >>>>how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. > >>>>I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in > >>>>ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a > >>>>standard coordinate > >>>>system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? > >>>>Even better > >>>>some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact > >>>>persons that can > >>>>help with this will be most welcome. > >>>> > >>>>73 de LA9EEA > >>>>Marius > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>--- > >>>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu > >>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>-- > >>Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu > >>Network Engineering > >>Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies > >>Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > >> > >> > >>--- > >>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > >> > >> > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: MARIUS@DATARESPONS.NO > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 23 09:44:58 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA16193 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:44:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Rick Hambly \(W2GPS\)" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:43:30 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000401c1ead5$3ca75f20$639421a2@rick> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Brooks, http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ seems to work OK. Rick W2GPS -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Brooks Shera Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:09 AM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Webpage problems Sorry about that. My ISP has decided to change servers and seems to be having a lot of trouble with the change over. If they can't get the problem solved soon, I'll switch to another webserver. Does anyone have any suggestions? I tried Crosswinds.net yesterday but they seem to have problems also. Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marius Hauki" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:50 AM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > Thanks Brooks. I checked the url you gave me, but there > is no info there. Could you please check if > something has happened with your site or server ? > > Best regards > Marius > > > Brooks Shera wrote: > > > Hi Marius, et al > > > > There is a program on my webpage www.rt66.com/~shera, under the Surveying > > section, called GPS Survey Assistant. It will do exactly what you > > want, plus other things useful for comparing GPS surveying with > > local surveys. > > > > For your purpose just enter the GPS positions of two locations (lat, > > longitude, altitude) and the Java program will compute the bearing, distance > > and elevation of the line of site. Actually it computes both the optical > > line of sight elevation, and the radio line of sight elevation. > > (The latter > > uses a larger earth radius to compensate for diffraction and is > > useful if > > you are setting up a radio link between two locations.) Let me know > > if you > > have any questions. > > > > Brooks > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gerry Creager N5JXS" > > To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:35 AM > > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > > > > > > >>If distances are more than a 'few' km, I fully agree that use of a > >>plane system is problemmatic. However, the conversions are simple > >>enough to allow one to convet directly to cartesian coordinates, > >>calculate a vector, and transform back to the original system. > >> > >>An additional word of caution: All data used for the > >>transformations should originate in WGS84, to make your life > >>simpler. WGS84 represents a relatively objective datum and > >>ellipsoid. Use of some of the older and more subjective systems > >>(NAD27 comes to mind... but there are myriad > >>others) will allow transformation in both directions, but will be less > >>accurate when transforming from subjective to objective datums. > >> > >>gerry > >>-- > >>Flemming Larsen wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Hej Marius, > >>> > >>>For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane > >>>trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical > >>>trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the > >>>information you need. > >>> > >>>I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and > >>>some years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial > >>>observations. > >>> > >>>However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the > >>>earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to > >>>use calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's > >>>sphere). > >>> > >>>Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude > >>>differences, I don't expect that it will be too difficult to > >>>calculate the straight- line distance between the two GPS > >>>receivers, unless you have extreme situations, such as one receiver > >>>being directly above the North Pole, and the other being directly > >>>above the South Pole. > >>> > >>>Here is a web link for calculating distances: > >>> > >>> http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist > >>> > >>>This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I > >>>find it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. > >>> > >>>73, > >>> > >>>-- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>> > >>>>Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related to GPS so > >>>>please bear with me : > >>>> > >>>>We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in > >>>>degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS > >>>>receivers can > >>>>be located above ground. > >>>>The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position > >>>>datastring to the other station via radio. This looks like a > >>>>trigonometric question. The problem is that I do not know > >>>>how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. > >>>>I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position in > >>>>ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses > >>>>a standard coordinate system. Does anyone have the formulaes to > >>>>solve this question ? Even better > >>>>some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact > >>>>persons that can > >>>>help with this will be most welcome. > >>>> > >>>>73 de LA9EEA > >>>>Marius > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>--- > >>>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu To > >>>unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>-- > >>Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu > >>Network Engineering > >>Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies > >>Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > >> > >> > >>--- > >>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >>leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > >> > >> > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: MARIUS@DATARESPONS.NO To > > unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: W2GPS@CNSSYS.COM To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 23 10:34:45 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA19455 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:34:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: jim_johnson@agilent.com To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:34:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hmm, that doesn't work for me, Rick. Here's what I got in response: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- While trying to retrieve the URL: http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ The following error was encountered: Unable to determine IP address from host name for ns2.rt66.com The dnsserver returned: Name Error: The domain name does not exist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- 73, Jim W6SC > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Hambly (W2GPS) [mailto:w2gps@cnssys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:44 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems > > > Brooks, > > http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ seems to work OK. > > Rick > W2GPS > > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Brooks Shera > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:09 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Webpage problems > > > Sorry about that. My ISP has decided to change servers and > seems to be > having a lot of trouble with the change over. If they can't get the > problem solved soon, I'll switch to another webserver. Does > anyone have > any suggestions? I tried Crosswinds.net yesterday but they > seem to have > problems also. > > Brooks > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 23 11:12:21 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA24119 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:12:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Rick Hambly \(W2GPS\)" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:11:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000901c1eae1$8cc3ade0$639421a2@rick> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Then try http://208.254.80.2/~shera/ Rick W2GPS -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of jim_johnson@agilent.com Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:34 AM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems Hmm, that doesn't work for me, Rick. Here's what I got in response: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---------------------- While trying to retrieve the URL: http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ The following error was encountered: Unable to determine IP address from host name for ns2.rt66.com The dnsserver returned: Name Error: The domain name does not exist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---------------------- 73, Jim W6SC > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Hambly (W2GPS) [mailto:w2gps@cnssys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:44 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems > > > Brooks, > > http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ seems to work OK. > > Rick > W2GPS > > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Brooks Shera > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:09 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Webpage problems > > > Sorry about that. My ISP has decided to change servers and > seems to be > having a lot of trouble with the change over. If they can't get the > problem solved soon, I'll switch to another webserver. Does > anyone have > any suggestions? I tried Crosswinds.net yesterday but they > seem to have > problems also. > > Brooks > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: W2GPS@CNSSYS.COM To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Apr 23 13:50:34 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA02795 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:50:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Bert Rathkamp" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:49:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001b01c1eaf7$a747b240$6401a8c0@main> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Rick, Brook's web site up snd running with the exception of being able to download software which are the last 3 items on the frequency/clock page. I just treid to download at 2:45 ESDT. Bert W8AE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Hambly (W2GPS)" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:11 PM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems > Then try > > http://208.254.80.2/~shera/ > > Rick > W2GPS > > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of > jim_johnson@agilent.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:34 AM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems > > > Hmm, that doesn't work for me, Rick. Here's what I got in response: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > ---------------------- > While trying to retrieve the URL: http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ > > The following error was encountered: > > Unable to determine IP address from host name for ns2.rt66.com > The dnsserver returned: > > Name Error: The domain name does not exist. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > ---------------------- > > 73, > Jim W6SC > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rick Hambly (W2GPS) [mailto:w2gps@cnssys.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:44 AM > > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Webpage problems > > > > > > Brooks, > > > > http://ns2.rt66.com/~shera/ seems to work OK. > > > > Rick > > W2GPS > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org > > [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Brooks Shera > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:09 AM > > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > > Subject: [tacgps] Webpage problems > > > > > > Sorry about that. My ISP has decided to change servers and > > seems to be > > having a lot of trouble with the change over. If they can't get the > > problem solved soon, I'll switch to another webserver. Does > > anyone have > > any suggestions? I tried Crosswinds.net yesterday but they > > seem to have > > problems also. > > > > Brooks > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: W2GPS@CNSSYS.COM > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: rathkamp@cinci.rr.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Apr 24 06:01:27 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA06086 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:01:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Robert Smith" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Webpage problems Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:00:37 -0400 Organization: Smith Machine Works, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001a01c1eb7f$44c21ab0$75113841@norman> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Brooks -- After putting up with a rash of such problems, I finally moved to http://www.earthlink.net . They are less than perfect but seem to be able to keep it going. Bob Smith --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 bobsmith5@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: [tacgps] Webpage problems > Sorry about that. My ISP has decided to change servers and seems to be > having a lot of trouble with the change over. If they can't get the problem > solved soon, I'll switch to another webserver. Does anyone have any > suggestions? I tried Crosswinds.net yesterday but they seem to have > problems also. > > Brooks > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marius Hauki" > To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:50 AM > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > > > Thanks Brooks. I checked the url you gave me, but there > > is no info there. Could you please check if > > something has happened with your site or server ? > > > > Best regards > > Marius > > > > > > Brooks Shera wrote: > > > > > Hi Marius, et al > > > > > > There is a program on my webpage www.rt66.com/~shera, under the > Surveying > > > section, called GPS Survey Assistant. It will do exactly what you want, > > > plus other things useful for comparing GPS surveying with local surveys. > > > > > > For your purpose just enter the GPS positions of two locations (lat, > > > longitude, altitude) and the Java program will compute the bearing, > distance > > > and elevation of the line of site. Actually it computes both the > optical > > > line of sight elevation, and the radio line of sight elevation. (The > latter > > > uses a larger earth radius to compensate for diffraction and is useful > if > > > you are setting up a radio link between two locations.) Let me know if > you > > > have any questions. > > > > > > Brooks > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gerry Creager N5JXS" > > > To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" > > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:35 AM > > > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > > > > > > > > > > >>If distances are more than a 'few' km, I fully agree that use of a plane > > >>system is problemmatic. However, the conversions are simple enough to > > >>allow one to convet directly to cartesian coordinates, calculate a > > >>vector, and transform back to the original system. > > >> > > >>An additional word of caution: All data used for the transformations > > >>should originate in WGS84, to make your life simpler. WGS84 represents > > >>a relatively objective datum and ellipsoid. Use of some of the older > > >>and more subjective systems (NAD27 comes to mind... but there are myriad > > >>others) will allow transformation in both directions, but will be less > > >>accurate when transforming from subjective to objective datums. > > >> > > >>gerry > > >>-- > > >>Flemming Larsen wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>Hej Marius, > > >>> > > >>>For distances of a few kilometers, you can use simple plane > > >>>trigonometry, but for longer distances, you need to use spherical > > >>>trigonometry. Any book on Celestial Navigation will have the > > >>>information you need. > > >>> > > >>>I have some experience in sailing and celestial navigation, and some > > >>>years ago, I wrote programs for solving celestial observations. > > >>> > > >>>However, as a boat is usually expected to be on the surface of the > > >>>earth's surface (hopefully on the wet part!), I have never had to use > > >>>calculations that included elevation (height above the earth's sphere). > > >>> > > >>>Once you do the calculations for the latitude/longitude differences, > > >>>I don't expect that it will be too difficult to calculate the straight- > > >>>line distance between the two GPS receivers, unless you have extreme > > >>>situations, such as one receiver being directly above the North Pole, > > >>>and the other being directly above the South Pole. > > >>> > > >>>Here is a web link for calculating distances: > > >>> > > >>> http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist > > >>> > > >>>This link probably won't solve your trigonometry problems, but I find > > >>>it to be handy for calculating simple distance questions. > > >>> > > >>>73, > > >>> > > >>>-- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS, ex. OZ6OI (Denmark) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>-----Original Message----- > > >>>> > > >>>>Subject: [tacgps] Calculations with two sets of GPS coordinates > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>This is pherhaps a little on the side, but still related > > >>>>to GPS so please bear with me : > > >>>> > > >>>>We want to calculate the bearing in degrees and elevation in > > >>>>degrees between two GPS receivers (AZ/EL). One of the GPS receivers > can > > >>>>be located above ground. > > >>>>The remote GPS receiver is transmitting its serial position datastring > > >>>>to the other station via radio. > > >>>>This looks like a trigonometric question. The problem is that I > > >>>>do not know > > >>>>how to use LAT / LONG / HEIGHT to calculate the bearing and elevation. > > >>>>I have heard that some GPS receivers also can transmit their position > in > > >>>>ZYZ format relative to the earths mass center. In that way is uses a > > >>>>standard coordinate > > >>>>system. Does anyone have the formulaes to solve this question ? > > >>>>Even better > > >>>>some general source code that we can use ? Any help / links / contact > > >>>>persons that can > > >>>>help with this will be most welcome. > > >>>> > > >>>>73 de LA9EEA > > >>>>Marius > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>>--- > > >>>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: gerry@cs.tamu.edu > > >>>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>-- > > >>Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu > > >>Network Engineering > > >>Academy for Advanced Telecommunications and Learning Technologies > > >>Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) > > >> > > >> > > >>--- > > >>You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > > >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: MARIUS@DATARESPONS.NO > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: bobsmith5@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Apr 24 06:40:47 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA08988 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:40:44 -0500 (CDT) To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Calcs Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:40:11 -0500 (CDT) From: kirbybq@hiwaay.net References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <1019648411.3cc6999bb1301@mail.hiwaay.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I beleive inverse3d at NGS will preform the calcs you want to do, between two GPS points. Look in the software section. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov you have to seperate the data when entering it; ie: 34 38 09.7 as one entry --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Apr 24 07:17:14 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA11601 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:17:11 -0500 (CDT) To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: Rubidium Cooling II Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:16:46 -0500 (CDT) From: kirbybq@hiwaay.net References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <1019650606.3cc6a22e175ce@mail.hiwaay.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I found some interesting reading at David Allan's site: http://www.allanstime.com/ He has several papers on line. The first one, "Prescision Oscillators: Dependence of Frequency on Temperature, Humidity and Pressure" goes over issues for quartz, rubidium, cesium, and hydrogen masers. He confirms several of the issues we have been over, and one I did not know about on rubidiums - helium in the ambinent has a bad effect on the physics package. After reading the paper, it looks like one of the best things that could be done, is to put the rubidium in a vacumn vessel ! He also has a paper "A No-drift and less than 10-13 Long-term Stability Quartz Oscillator Using a GPS SA filter" that goes over GPS disiplined quartz oscillators. It covers something I had on my mind about the short term stability of steered oscillators. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Apr 24 10:34:07 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA26875 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:34:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:21:33 -0400 From: John Ackermann N8UR To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Digital BASH Update Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <12010740.1019647293@WUSJA129861-8HP> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk We're very happy to announce that Bdale Garbe, KB0G, will be the keynote speaker at the TAPR/MVFMA Digital BASH on Friday evening at Hamvention. Bdale is one of the long-time "good guys" in the digital radio and amateur satellite worlds. He was in the middle of the early work on KA9Q's "NET" and "NOS" programs, pioneered megabit-rate packet radio, and in the satellite world was heavily involved in the RUDAK and AO-40 GPS experiments. Back in the Old Days, he was a board member and Vice President of TAPR, and remains one of TAPR's best friends. On a different front, Bdale was just elected as Debian Project Leader, so he now oversees one of the major Linux distributions -- and the one that is by far the most ham-friendly. Bdale works in the Linux development group at HP, and in his spare (?) time does VHF/UHF/microwave contesting and roaming. Bdale's talk will blend all of these interests into an entertaining and informative presentation titled "From Bits in the Basement to Debian -- and Back Again". You can find more information about the Digital BASH and TAPR's other Hamvention activities at http://www.tapr.org/tapr/dayton/. See you there! 73, John ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Apr 24 19:17:45 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA03812 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:17:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: dhaselwood@POP3.ij.net Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:11:29 -0400 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Donald E Haselwood Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020424201129.007eb5d0@POP3.ij.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Rather than control the "environmental temp" for the Rb, why not apply a "steering" correction based on the temp of the Rb. Any thoughts about this approach? It seems like the critical issue is that the temp sensing (e.g. a thermistor at the base of the heat sink) will not be at the same place as the temp sensitive parts, resulting a lag between a sensed temp change and the effect on the freq. It would therefore be important to keep the Rb out of drafts so that temp changes are gradual. The hardware for coupling the temp sensing with the gps steering is easy. Just add a thermistor/op amp. I had been toying with ideas for controlling the flow of outside air through a box containing the Rb, something that requires sensing temp, when the "forward compensation" idea popped up...forget the fan, and just retained the temp sensing. Don --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Apr 25 16:08:12 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA24392 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:08:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:06:02 +0200 From: Alberto di Bene Organization: None X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" CC: Time Nuts , TAPR HF Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Ovenaire Precision Xtal Osc. References: <3C6812AA.2053B9F@pacific.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3CC86FBA.30C1D8F@usa.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I am looking for the pinout and specs of the Precision Crystal Oscillator Mod. OSC 49-11 made by Ovenaire Audio Carpenter. It is an ovenized unit, 3 MHz, found at an hamfest. I have been unable to find anything on the Internet. Thanks for any data 73 Alberto I2PHD --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org