From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 2 19:36:03 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA18844 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:36:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 20:26:04 -0400 From: "John R. Ackermann" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Spring _Packet_Status_Register_ Available Online Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <457392225.1020371164@[192.168.1.26]> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk As the subject says... the new issue of TAPR's journal, the _Packet_Status_Register_, is now available online. You can go to http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fpsr.html, or obtain it via ftp from ftp://ftp.tapr.org/psr/Spring_83_2002.pdf. You'll need Adobe Acrobat or other PDF file reader to view the document. Stan Horzepa, WA1LOU, has taken the reins as the PSR's editor, and I'd like to thank him for his great work on this issue. Please send comments, suggestions, or -- best of all -- articles to Stan at psr@tapr.org. 73, John N8UR --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 18:36:23 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA21036 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 18:36:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Pawlan To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] GPS time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dear Tom and group, As a timing backup I bought one of the HP Z3801 GPS timing receivers and I made the RS-422/RS-232 interface. I also built the AC supply neatly within the chassis. The status page shows that it is now tracking very well since I re-initialized the position using the appropriate 'survey' command. One thing I don't understand however, is the significant difference between the GPS time (in UTC) as seen on the Z3801 "status page" viewed in near real time on a notebook computer and listening to WWV at the same time. If anything, I would expect the GPS time to be very slightly lagging WWV time but instead the GPS time is nearly a full 10 seconds ahead of WWV. Please explain this to me. If anyone is interested, I have taken a digital photo showing the power supply addition to the Z3801 chassis and I can email it to you individually if you ask me for it. I did not want to trouble the entire group by sending an attachment. 73, Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 18:54:50 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA21545 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 18:54:39 -0500 (CDT) X-pair-Authenticated: 209.245.169.25 Message-ID: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Tom Van Baak" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:47:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <053301c1f7b3$e0ab1680$19a9f5d1@tlvb> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey, GPS time is ahead of UTC by 13 seconds these days. What tool do you use to display the time? I suspect your "near real-time" is closer to a 3 second lag. For example the sum of the delays of your PC sending a RS-232 command, the Z3801A responding to it, the PC receiving the data, and displaying the result. The net result is that your PC might display UTC + 13 - 3, which is UTC - 10 seconds. By the way, to change the default Z3801A time display from GPS to UTC send it the following command and power cycle: DIAG:GPS:UTC 1 /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Pawlan" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 16:27 Subject: [tacgps] GPS time > Dear Tom and group, > > As a timing backup I bought one of the HP Z3801 GPS timing receivers and I > made the RS-422/RS-232 interface. I also built the AC supply neatly within the > chassis. The status page shows that it is now tracking very well since I > re-initialized the position using the appropriate 'survey' command. > > One thing I don't understand however, is the significant difference between the > GPS time (in UTC) as seen on the Z3801 "status page" viewed in near real time on > a notebook computer and listening to WWV at the same time. If anything, I would > expect the GPS time to be very slightly lagging WWV time but instead the GPS > time is nearly a full 10 seconds ahead of WWV. Please explain this to me. > > If anyone is interested, I have taken a digital photo showing the power supply > addition to the Z3801 chassis and I can email it to you individually if you ask > me for it. I did not want to trouble the entire group by sending an attachment. > > 73, > > Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 19:47:03 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA23967 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 19:46:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:38:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Pawlan To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 May 2002, Tom Van Baak wrote: > Jeffrey, > > GPS time is ahead of UTC by 13 seconds these days. > > What tool do you use to display the time? I suspect > your "near real-time" is closer to a 3 second lag. For > example the sum of the delays of your PC sending a > RS-232 command, the Z3801A responding to it, the > PC receiving the data, and displaying the result. The > net result is that your PC might display UTC + 13 - 3, > which is UTC - 10 seconds. > > By the way, to change the default Z3801A time display > from GPS to UTC send it the following command and > power cycle: > > DIAG:GPS:UTC 1 > You are correct that there is around a 3 sec delay for the communication and display of the status screen. Although I initially used a terminal program (Telix), I found that the supplied GPS-STAT program made for this particular receiver is very easy to use and works well. I sent the command, powered off, then the time was indeed around 3 sec. BEHIND WWV now. I still don't know why GPS time is different than UTC. I also find that this particular Z3801 has a very well defined range of power supply voltages that it requires. The normal range is 48 - 60v and the manual says it should begin operation down to 37v. My unit requires 47v min and 60v max. When the oven is already hot, the load on the unregulated supply I built inside jumps up to just over 60v and the receiver will not start. So I will need to add either a large Zener or a series regulator. Have you checked yours for voltage startup sensitivity while the unit was fully warm? 73, Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 20:38:00 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA26348 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 20:37:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Bert Rathkamp" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] TRAK 8820 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:37:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1F7A1.B444FD20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002e01c1f7c3$3d808200$6401a8c0@main> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1F7A1.B444FD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To all, Does anyone have an answer to make a TRAK 8820 work. It shows position = and altitude no problem. If you put 02 in year date it thinks it is = 1902. It will not lock on because of a Y2K problem which TRAK will fix = for $2000. Bert ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1F7A1.B444FD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To all,
 
Does anyone have an answer to make a = TRAK 8820=20 work. It shows position and altitude no problem. If you put 02 in year = date it=20 thinks it is 1902. It will not lock on because of a Y2K problem = which TRAK=20 will fix for $2000.
 
Bert
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1F7A1.B444FD20-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 21:10:13 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA27739 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 21:10:04 -0500 (CDT) To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time Message-ID: Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:09:21 -0500 (CDT) From: kirbybq@hiwaay.net References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <1020996561.3cdb2bd11031f@mail.hiwaay.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk GPS time is referenced to UTC starting 0000Z on Jan 6th, 1980. UTC is periodically corrected by introducing leap seconds, etc. GPS is not corrected because it would introduce navigation errors/offsets. I read somewhere that corrections would affect user range accuracy. It had something to do with the speed of light and time of transmission and the WGS-84 specs and how the solution is calculated. The way they get around it, is they put an time offset in a navigation message, that tells the receiver to add so many seconds to GPS time to obtain UTC. Its up to the maker of the unit to incorporate it for a real time display. Quoting Jeffrey Pawlan : > On Thu, 9 May 2002, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > > Jeffrey, > > > > GPS time is ahead of UTC by 13 seconds these days. > > > > What tool do you use to display the time? I suspect > > your "near real-time" is closer to a 3 second lag. For > > example the sum of the delays of your PC sending a > > RS-232 command, the Z3801A responding to it, the > > PC receiving the data, and displaying the result. The > > net result is that your PC might display UTC + 13 - 3, > > which is UTC - 10 seconds. > > > > By the way, to change the default Z3801A time display > > from GPS to UTC send it the following command and > > power cycle: > > > > DIAG:GPS:UTC 1 > > > > You are correct that there is around a 3 sec delay for the communication > and > display of the status screen. Although I initially used a terminal > program > (Telix), I found that the supplied GPS-STAT program made for this > particular > receiver is very easy to use and works well. > > I sent the command, powered off, then the time was indeed around 3 sec. > BEHIND > WWV now. I still don't know why GPS time is different than UTC. > > > I also find that this particular Z3801 has a very well defined range of > power > supply voltages that it requires. The normal range is 48 - 60v and the > manual > says it should begin operation down to 37v. My unit requires 47v min and > 60v > max. When the oven is already hot, the load on the unregulated supply I > built > inside jumps up to just over 60v and the receiver will not start. So I > will need > to add either a large Zener or a series regulator. Have you checked > yours for > voltage startup sensitivity while the unit was fully warm? > > 73, > > Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: kirbybq@hiwaay.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 21:38:59 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA28366 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 21:38:54 -0500 (CDT) X-pair-Authenticated: 209.245.167.86 Message-ID: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Tom Van Baak" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:31:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <002901c1f7ca$d0e04e20$4fa5f5d1@tlvb> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > You are correct that there is around a 3 sec delay for the communication and > display of the status screen. Although I initially used a terminal program > (Telix), I found that the supplied GPS-STAT program made for this particular > receiver is very easy to use and works well You could reduce the delay by writing your own program to send the PTIM:TIME? command instead of the much more verbose SYST:STAT? command. However, most people who need sub-second accuracy use the 1 PPS signal rather than depend on the timing of the RS-232 output. > I sent the command, powered off, then the time was indeed around 3 sec. BEHIND > WWV now. I still don't know why GPS time is different than UTC. GPS time is offset from UTC due to leap seconds. Every now and then, based on precise measurements of the earth's rotation, an extra second is added to UTC to keep "atomic time" within a second of "earth time". Unlike leap days (February 29) we cannot predict too far in advance when a leap second (23:59:60) will be necessary. It depends on complex sub-millisecond variations in the earth rotation rate. Anyway some autonomous timing systems find the unpredictable insertion of an extra second a major pain so by design they just avoid the problem by creating their own time scale - where every minute still has 60 seconds no matter what. Examples are Loran-C, GPS, cell phones (CDMA?), and perhaps others. GPS receivers and cell phones can still display UTC because the leap second offset is also included as part of the data stream. > I also find that this particular Z3801 has a very well defined range of power > supply voltages that it requires. The normal range is 48 - 60v and the manual > says it should begin operation down to 37v. My unit requires 47v min and 60v > max. When the oven is already hot, the load on the unregulated supply I built > inside jumps up to just over 60v and the receiver will not start. So I will need > to add either a large Zener or a series regulator. Have you checked yours for > voltage startup sensitivity while the unit was fully warm? > > 73, > > Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL The manual must be wrong. Most of us find 48 V pretty much the minimum. /tvb --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 22:26:09 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA29666 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 22:26:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:25:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Timothy J. Salo" Message-Id: To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200205100325.WAA26846@www.saloits.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:38:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jeffrey Pawlan > Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time > [...] > I still don't know why GPS time is different than UTC. > [...] See, for example: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leap.html When you are done with that, and have some time, you might want to read everything else on tycho. And, of course, this is the Internet, so check out (particularly the links): http://www.leapsecond.com/ -tjs --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu May 9 22:43:37 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA00406 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 22:43:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Pawlan To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thank you everyone for your help explaining this subject and also the reference links. It makes sense to me now. 73, Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed May 22 09:31:41 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA14550 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 09:31:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 10:31:13 -0400 From: John Ackermann N8UR To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Z3801A (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <8745084.1022063473@WUSJA129861-8HP> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Here's the first of two messages I received recently offering large numbers of Z3801A's for sale. John ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 4:24 PM -0700 From: Mike To: jra@febo.com Subject: Z3801A Any chance you need more of these GPS units I have 1600 in stock. If you or any friends are looking for one I have them for sale at $349 http://www.febo.com/time-freq/gps/ MIKE PAYNE HITECH COMPONENTS 775 356 1777 EXT 329 775 356 7801 FAX www.hitechcafe.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed May 22 09:32:32 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA14601 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 09:32:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 10:31:48 -0400 From: John Ackermann N8UR To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Z3801A (part 2) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <8780645.1022063508@WUSJA129861-8HP> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is the second -- he has 1600 of 'em! John ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 4:24 PM -0700 From: Mike To: jra@febo.com Subject: Z3801A Any chance you need more of these GPS units I have 1600 in stock. If you or any friends are looking for one I have them for sale at $349 http://www.febo.com/time-freq/gps/ MIKE PAYNE HITECH COMPONENTS 775 356 1777 EXT 329 775 356 7801 FAX www.hitechcafe.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed May 22 09:55:02 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA15506 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 09:54:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 10:54:10 -0400 From: John Ackermann N8UR To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Fw: Z3801A HP GPS RECEIVERS (fwd) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <10122325.1022064850@WUSJA129861-8HP> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I screwed up and sent the same message both times. This is the *other* guy with Z3801A's for sale. Sorry. John ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:51 PM -0400 From: mlerra To: jra@febo.com Subject: Fw: Z3801A HP GPS RECEIVERS Subject: Fw: Z3801A HP GPS RECEIVERS HEWLETT PACKARD GPS RECEIVER FOR SALE $355.00 USD 50 AVAILABLE Marco Lerra ITS-Mart, Inc. SPACE COAST TECHNOLOGY 465 Turtle Circle Satellite Beach, FL 32937 Tel: 321-777-6035 Fax: 321-777-2840 Email: mlerra@its-mart.com Web: www.its-mart.com > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---- John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com http://www.febo.com President, TAPR n8ur@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon May 27 13:42:29 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA07330 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 13:42:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: markm@192.168.0.20 Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:41:52 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Mark Miller Subject: [tacgps] HP 10811-60111 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020527133643.02d16720@192.168.0.20> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I have a HP 10811-60111 in a HP5328A that I think has a problem. The counter started acting erratically, and when I checked the 10MHz signal on a scope, it was very rough looking (non-sinusoidal). I don't know if this is normal. My oscillator is connected to a board with a sma connector that connects to the back of the counter to a BNC. Does anyone on the group know where I can get a schematic of the oscillator and this PC board? Thanks 73 Mark N5RFX --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon May 27 14:05:24 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA08669 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 14:05:23 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Bruce Rahn" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: HP 10811-60111 Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:02:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MailScanner: Found to be clean List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Mark, Before you dig into the oscillator module, check the power supply in the HP 5328A. I've observed erratic operation and crummy waveforms when one or more of the capacitors in the power supply are failing/have failed. Good luck! Regards -- Bruce Bruce Rahn WB9ANQ brahn@woh.rr.com Wisdom has two parts: 1. having a lot to say; and 2. not saying it! -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-5626@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5626@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Mark Miller Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 2:42 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] HP 10811-60111 I have a HP 10811-60111 in a HP5328A that I think has a problem. The counter started acting erratically, and when I checked the 10MHz signal on a scope, it was very rough looking (non-sinusoidal). I don't know if this is normal. My oscillator is connected to a board with a sma connector that connects to the back of the counter to a BNC. Does anyone on the group know where I can get a schematic of the oscillator and this PC board? Thanks 73 Mark N5RFX --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: BRAHN@voyager.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue May 28 16:21:00 2002 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA04666 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 16:20:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank R. Leslie" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: tacgps digest: April 20, 2002 Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:20:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000501c2068d$8b45ad70$677245cf@D7GJ72114300> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Re: Rb Cooling You might try making your own box from alternate layers of Al foil and polyfoam. The Al conducts heat around to avoid hot spots, while the polyfoam resists heat transfer. It's something like a space blanket. Frank --- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=| | Frank R. Leslie | Pers. email: mailto:f.leslie@ieee.org | | 1017 Glenham Drive, NE | Prof. email: mailto:f.leslie@ieee.org | | Palm Bay FL 32905-4855 | Home: (321) 768-6629 | KD4EYQ | 020305 | | 28-01.3130N / 80-35.6136W | | www.geocities.com/windy4us (Wind Energy Experimenters) | | www.geocities.com/sun_powered (Outings, Hiking & Wind River trip advice)| -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-7805@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-7805@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of TAPR Special Interest Group digest Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 2:01 AM To: tacgps digest recipients Subject: tacgps digest: April 20, 2002 TAPR Special Interest Group Digest for Saturday, April 20, 2002. 1. RE: Rubidium Cooling 2. RE: Rubidium Cooling 3. RE: Rubidium Cooling ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Rubidium Cooling From: Mark Miller Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:50:33 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 My Efratom FRK-C2 does not have a heat sink, but there is a place to mount one. Does anyone know where I can buy just a heat sink for this Rb osc ? 73 Mark N5RFX At 23:29 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote: >Remember that there are reasons that there are reasons the Rb runs hot. The >main is that the Rb lamp is hot by its very nature. Then in a properly >designed system, the xtal will be cut to make use of this as an oven. > >If you try to suck out too much heat, the thermal controller in the Rb will >just have to work that much harder to make up for the heat you are >extracting. > >The best thing is to try to keep the temperature around it constant. I'd put >the Rb in an insulated temp chamber to isolate it from the outside world. I >have used a cardboard box and some "OK to be warm" insulating material so >that the room's air conditioner doesn't induce changes. But keep the >temperature stable! > >If you put it in a box, affix some sort of temp monitor. I use the iButton >(Dallas Semi/Maxim) DS1921 logger and DS1920 or 18S20 one-wire devices here. >I'd also watch the current feeding the Rb. There will be a high "cold" value >which will throttle back when the oven warms up. You want to minimize the >amount of time that the oven is ON by watching for variations in the supply >current. > >The typical Efratom M100 is quite happy with the small heat sink that comes >with them. I've also just bolted them to a large thermal mass (aluminum >plate) inside the "oven". > >To use a Peltier pump to cool it, and then make the oven run more only helps >those who want to use more fossil fuels! Save a tree -- 73, Tom > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: markm@kramrellim.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Rubidium Cooling From: "Robert Smith" Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:37:39 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 Lots of heat sinks at http://www.digikey.com . Bob Smith --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 bobsmith5@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Miller" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 4:50 AM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Rubidium Cooling > My Efratom FRK-C2 does not have a heat sink, but there is a place to mount > one. Does anyone know where I can buy just a heat sink for this Rb osc ? > > 73 > Mark N5RFX > > At 23:29 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Remember that there are reasons that there are reasons the Rb runs hot. The > >main is that the Rb lamp is hot by its very nature. Then in a properly > >designed system, the xtal will be cut to make use of this as an oven. > > > >If you try to suck out too much heat, the thermal controller in the Rb will > >just have to work that much harder to make up for the heat you are > >extracting. > > > >The best thing is to try to keep the temperature around it constant. I'd put > >the Rb in an insulated temp chamber to isolate it from the outside world. I > >have used a cardboard box and some "OK to be warm" insulating material so > >that the room's air conditioner doesn't induce changes. But keep the > >temperature stable! > > > >If you put it in a box, affix some sort of temp monitor. I use the iButton > >(Dallas Semi/Maxim) DS1921 logger and DS1920 or 18S20 one-wire devices here. > >I'd also watch the current feeding the Rb. There will be a high "cold" value > >which will throttle back when the oven warms up. You want to minimize the > >amount of time that the oven is ON by watching for variations in the supply > >current. > > > >The typical Efratom M100 is quite happy with the small heat sink that comes > >with them. I've also just bolted them to a large thermal mass (aluminum > >plate) inside the "oven". > > > >To use a Peltier pump to cool it, and then make the oven run more only helps > >those who want to use more fossil fuels! Save a tree -- 73, Tom > > > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: markm@kramrellim.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: bobsmith5@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Rubidium Cooling From: kirbybq@hiwaay.net Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:37:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 3 For Dan: Peltier junctions were out of the question - too much power draw considering the battery backup system. My battery system is set up to hold the system up for 48 hours. Current drawn by system is around 500 ma/hr after the rubdium is warmed up. I use 28 a/h batteries and if I go much bigger, they would have to go outdoors. For Mark: The rubidium heatsink is not very big. Its a little over 1/8 inch thick at the base and fits over the end where the frequency ajustment access is. It has 12 fins, 6 on the left side and 6 on the right side. The fins are around 1/8 thich, with about the same for spacing in between. They are about 3/4 of an inch long. The center of the heatsink has not fins. For Donald: I have reservations on disciplining the rubidium against GPS, as have never seen any performace data on the rubidium after modification. I do not have long term access to a cesium or maser to compare it after modification. WHile I'm sure that it works in the long term, I am specifically concerned with what it does in the short term. If you look at Allan variances for GPS vs. rubidium, the rubidium has much better short term stability, until you reach an elasped time of 10,000 seconds or so. A lot of rubidiums are better than a normal cesium as far as short term stability in the range of 100 to 1000 seconds. Temp is the worst environmental effect on the FRK rubidium. Its rated to hold 1-E9 from -25C to 65C. What I found from my recorded data, is if I can hold it at 70F, its very stable - in low parts of -E12. I appreciate everybody's comments - Dr Clark hit it on the head. I need to determine the temp where the heaters are at minimum operation and the maximum temp to stabilize it considering the ambient environment. Sounds like I need to retain the heat inside of the unit. My thought is to wrap the unit with some of the foam backed foil insulation and leave the heat sink exposed. Then a temp proportional control fan circuit mounted away from the heatsink, so it works without cooling, and when needed the fan comes in slowly, so the temp does not change fast. Maybe a current sense circuit, so the fan cannot come on when the heaters are running. Thanks - 73s - KD4FMN - Brian Be sure to listen for the Northeast Alabama 6M club on 50.150 Mhz, Monday thru Friday at 9PM Central time when the band opens. webpage at http://www.neasmn.org/ --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: fleslie@brevard.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org