From srbible@gate.net Sat Jan 02 17:48:25 1999 Received: from chickasaw.gate.net (root@chickasaw.gate.net [198.206.134.26]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09038 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:48:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar (tskng1-73.gate.net [207.36.2.73]) by chickasaw.gate.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA330678 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:48:01 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990102184913.009c86d0@pop.gate.net> X-Sender: srbible@pop.gate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 18:49:13 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Fwd: [amsat-bb] Leap Second caution Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >X-From_: owner-AMSAT-BB@AMSAT.Org Sat Jan 2 18:42:55 1999 >Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:39:13 -0500 (EST) >From: Jim S >To: amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org, sarex@AMSAT.Org, HearSat-L@QTH.net, > SeeSat-L@blackadder.lmsal.com >Subject: [amsat-bb] Leap Second caution >Sender: owner-AMSAT-BB@AMSAT.Org > >A word of caution from personal experience for those of you using the new >"atomic" clocks to obtain accurate time for your satellite listening >and/or viewing pleasure. > >These clocks receive radio transmissions from WWVB to initially set and >periodically update themselves, applying an error correction to adjust or >fine-tune the internal time-base. > >The addition of a "leap-second" on January first confuses the clock into >adjusting for the apparent one-second error by making an unwanted >adjustment of the time-base rate. If left alone, this should >automatically re-adjust itself back to a correct value over an extended >period of time. In the interim, clock accuracy suffers. If in doubt, >the clock should have a "reset" button hidden away somewhere which will >force the processor to return to default and start over. > >I was impatient and forced a reset so I cannot guess as to how long an >automatic resync would take. I can say that the effects of the >leap-second adjustment were quickly apparent when compared to another >clock with only manual adjustment. > >Happy New Year! ;) >---- >Via the amsat-bb mailing list at AMSAT.ORG courtesy of AMSAT-NA. >To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to Majordomo@amsat.org > > - Steve (n7hpr@tapr.org) (n7hpr@amsat.org) From Rosenberg.Eric@orbcomm.com Wed Jan 06 14:18:19 1999 Received: from occ3.orbcomm.com (occ3.orbcomm.com [38.251.90.2]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15266 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from OCCSMTP.ORBCOMM.COM (occsmtp.orbcomm.com [38.180.122.215]) by occ3.orbcomm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19230 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:20:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by OCCSMTP.ORBCOMM.COM(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 852566F1.006F576F ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:16:08 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: OCCVA From: Rosenberg.Eric@orbcomm.com To: tacgps@tapr.org Message-ID: <852566F1.006ED57B.00@OCCSMTP.ORBCOMM.COM> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:15:00 -0500 Subject: 2 GPS Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline 2 probably simple questions: 1. What is the specification for velocity accuracy with 'normal' (i.e., no-differential) GPS operations? Can one rely on the receiver's display of speed. 2. Someone posted a mailing list for the TH-D7A HT, but I lost it. What is it? Thanks, Eric W3DQ rosenberg.eric@orbcomm.com From Stan_Horzepa@adc.com Wed Jan 06 15:08:25 1999 Received: from smtp.adc.com (smtp.adc.com [155.226.10.207]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17317 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:08:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from mplsgtwy01.adc.com (mplsgtwy01.adc.com [155.226.11.222]) by smtp.adc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA12676 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:07:53 -0600 (CST) Received: by mplsgtwy01.adc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:06:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1B66FFC6BE1CD211A0620008C7A42AC21EF785@MRDNEXCH01.ct.adc.com> From: "Horzepa, Stan" To: "'tacgps@tapr.org'" Subject: RE: [TACGPS:1982] 2 GPS Questions Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:59:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To subscribe to the APRS HT mailing list, send email to listserv@tapr.org with the following text in the contents of the message: subscribe htaprs -----Original Message----- From: Rosenberg.Eric@orbcomm.com [mailto:Rosenberg.Eric@orbcomm.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 3:23 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:1982] 2 GPS Questions 2 probably simple questions: 1. What is the specification for velocity accuracy with 'normal' (i.e., no-differential) GPS operations? Can one rely on the receiver's display of speed. 2. Someone posted a mailing list for the TH-D7A HT, but I lost it. What is it? Thanks, Eric W3DQ rosenberg.eric@orbcomm.com From alan@columbia.edu Wed Jan 06 15:10:34 1999 Received: from fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (cu41854@fozimane.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.87]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17429 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:10:34 -0600 (CST) Received: (from alan@localhost) by fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10131 for tacgps@tapr.org; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:10:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 99 16:10:32 EST From: Alan Crosswell To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1982] TACGPS digest 376 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:23:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: >2. Someone posted a mailing list for the TH-D7A HT, but I lost it. What is htaprs@tapr.org From clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Jan 06 17:06:32 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA22773 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:06:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from scheat.gsfc.nasa.gov by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:06:21 -0500 Message-Id: <3693EC6C.E04A2ED6@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 18:06:20 -0500 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1982] 2 GPS Questions References: <852566F1.006ED57B.00@OCCSMTP.ORBCOMM.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rosenberg.Eric@orbcomm.com asked > 1. What is the specification for velocity accuracy with 'normal' (i.e., > no-differential) GPS operations? Can one rely on the receiver's display of > speed. Your first sentence asks for VELOCITY and the second asks for SPEED. The two ain't the same!!!!!!! Velocity is a vector while speed has no direction associated with it, and is simply the magnitude of the vector velocity. SA imparts a peak VELOCITY error of a ~1 km/hr. Just so you can see that I didn't pull this out of the hat, a handy number to remember is that, for any given satellite, the peak SA-induced "Doppler" error is ~1 Hz. Since The GPS frequency is ~1.6 GHz, this means that the resulting velocity error for one satellite with 1 Hz error is (~1 Hz / 1.6 GHz) * (speed of light) = (6*10e-10) * (3*10e5 km/sec) * (3.6*10e3 sec/hour) = ~0.65 km/hr = ~0.4 MPH Your GPS receiver uses several satellites to determine the velocity, and the aggregate result is a peak velocity error no bigger than when the worst-case number is true for all satellites: Velocity error < ~HDOP * (each satellite's error) or Error < (HDOP ~2)*( 0.65 km/hr=0.4 MPH) = (1.3 km/hr=0.8 MPH) Because each satellite's SA is independent of the others, you should expect typical numbers about one-third of the peak. The average vector velocity error is zero. This is why I'm so pedantic about the difference between VELOCITY and SPEED -- lets assume you are stopped at a traffic light. Your GPS receiver almost never shows a speed of ZERO -- typically it reads ~1 MPH, right? This is because the LCD is showing SPEED, but not the direction, so its average is never zero. It always has to be a positive number! For the mathematically inclined, the average VELOCITY is zero and it looks like a two-dimesional gaussian distribution. The one-dimensional indicated speed has a Rayleigh distribution, with a peak about 1.5 times the one-sigma value of the two-D gaussian curve and no negative readings. In other words, I said that I expect an RMS velocity error of about (1/3)*(1.3 km/hr=0.8MPH) or RMS=(~.43 km/hr=0.26 MPH). So when I'm stopped, I expect SPEED errors ~(0.6 km/h=0.4MPH). The human notes/remembers the larger excursions, so you make the comment "My GPS must be broken. At a stop light it shows me moving nearly 1 MPH!". Now you start moving. The SA-induced error can now make your indicated speed be either too fast or too slow. When your speed is several times the ~1 MPH threshold, the error becomes a symmetrical, gaussian shape at the ~.5km/hr=0.3MPH level. In the intermediate speed range (moving slowly, < 5-10 MPH), the statistical distribution is messy and known as a Rice distribution and is intermediate between the Rayleigh and gaussian regimes, with a tendency for the GPS to over-estimate the true speed. So when you are hiking, you are probably moving a tad slower than indicated. Is that what you wanted? 73, Tom From king@sstar.com Wed Jan 06 20:44:53 1999 Received: from junior.lgc.com (junior.lgc.com [134.132.72.99]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11050 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:44:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from oasis.zycor.lgc.com by junior.lgc.com (8.8.8/lgc.1.26) id UAA13052; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:43:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from maroon by oasis.zycor.lgc.com (8.8.8/lgc.1.20) id UAA26809; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:43:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901070243.UAA26809@oasis.zycor.lgc.com> X-Sender: king@mail.sstar.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 20:43:47 -0600 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: Jim King Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1982] TACGPS digest 376 Cc: Rosenberg.Eric@orbcomm.com In-Reply-To: <199901062023.OAA15482@tapr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >1. What is the specification for velocity accuracy with 'normal' (i.e., >no-differential) GPS operations? Can one rely on the receiver's display of >speed. MIT's Lincoln Lab has a GPS velocity error scatter plot at http://satnav.atc.ll.mit.edu/gps/images/gps-vscat.gif. It looks to me like the typical error is no more than 1 MPH. From ssampson@usa-site.net Wed Jan 06 21:24:51 1999 Received: from access.usa-site.net (access.usa-site.net [209.140.34.130]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12657 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:24:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from dodge (dodge.usa-site.net [209.140.34.135]) by access.usa-site.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA04231 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:24:45 -0600 Message-ID: <002801be39ed$22a31ca0$87228cd1@dodge.usa-site.net> From: "Steve Sampson" To: Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1985] Re: 2 GPS Questions Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:23:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 But shouldn't my speed be referenced to Alpha Centari? I'm not really standing still when I'm stopped at a light :-) > (~1 Hz / 1.6 GHz) * (speed of light) > = (6*10e-10) * (3*10e5 km/sec) * (3.6*10e3 sec/hour) > = ~0.65 km/hr = ~0.4 MPH From vk2tds@ozemail.com.au Thu Jan 07 01:07:52 1999 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (root@note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA29711 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:07:50 -0600 (CST) Received: From ozemail.com.au ([129.94.15.120]) By note With Smtp ; Thu, 7 Jan 99 18:06:20 +1100 From: Darryl Smith To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:59:17 +1100 Message-ID: <36945B44.8CD5024E@ozemail.com.au> Organization: Quite poor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: August 1998 Problem.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was talking to an Engineer in a sister company - in the electricity distribution business. One of their outlying offices uses GPS to keep an accurate time on the computer.... Anyway my friend was talking to the guy about Y1999 and Y2K with GPS, and the computer person said that this was the only GPS in the company.... The company has a few thousand employees mind you. My friend said to the computer person that the surveyors used GPS. The response back was What would surveyors use GPS for? My friend was also telling me that they are using GPS in the power industry to test the protection on the transmission lines, accurately timing tests - For those that don't realize, 50 Hz is radio, and you get reflections if you suddenly disconnect a power transmission line, so you have to unplug it at both ends at the right time. Darryl VK2TDS From buoy@redshift.com Thu Jan 07 01:39:35 1999 Received: from mail.redshift.com (mail.redshift.com [209.54.200.6]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00547 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:39:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from buoy.mcktech.com (pm4-179.sal.redshift.com [207.204.198.179]) by mail.redshift.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id XAA28994 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:39:27 -0800 Message-ID: <001801be3a0f$22fa44e0$b3c6cccf@buoy.mcktech.com> From: "Doug McKinney" To: "TACGPS" Subject: 2 GPS Questions Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:27:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Tom, loved the response I just LOL. I hope Eric did also! Eric you gota appreciate Tom's effort, I always do. I always save Tom's remarks and its great we have such talented inputs (or is that OUTPUTS)!! Thanks tom 73's Doug From spark51@ibm.net Thu Jan 07 12:20:15 1999 Received: from roadrunner.sig.net (roadrunner.sig.net [192.195.85.203]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28158 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:20:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from host-rls (dynamic23.fbtc-rtr1.fbtc.net [204.2.10.23]) by roadrunner.sig.net (8.9.0/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA05485 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:18:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Ron L. Sparks" To: Subject: RE: [TACGPS:1988] August 1998 Problem.... Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:20:33 -0600 Message-ID: <002d01be3a6a$6a235f40$02651964@host-rls.fbtc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <36945B44.8CD5024E@ozemail.com.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal It is always fun to hear of stuff like this! I can't resist "putting in my two cents worth". Back in the dusty, cobwebs of my memory I remember doing line transient and stability problems in school. In one of my power T&D classes we learned the major difference between above ground and below ground lines was how they behaved in exactly the situation your friend described. As it turns out, above ground lines have inductance as their primary reactive component so the transients from popping a breaker, fuse or switch will ring and then die out. BUT, on below ground lines the capacitive component becomes the dominant reactance and you would be shocked to learn how high the voltage and power becomes. Imagine a three to six voltage multiplier on a line already carrying 13.8 KV at 100 Amps! It will make a mess of switches, contacts, breakers, and anything else. Yeowch! By the way, if the timing accuracy is what they are using the GPS for then I don't see why the date roll over in August would effect them. Can anyone explain? I thought it would only effect the positioning portion and then only on older, non-compliant units. Ron -----Original Message----- From: tacgps@tapr.org [mailto:tacgps@tapr.org] On Behalf Of Darryl Smith Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 1:08 AM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:1988] August 1998 Problem.... I was talking to an Engineer in a sister company - in the electricity distribution business. One of their outlying offices uses GPS to keep an accurate time on the computer.... Anyway my friend was talking to the guy about Y1999 and Y2K with GPS, and the computer person said that this was the only GPS in the company.... The company has a few thousand employees mind you. My friend said to the computer person that the surveyors used GPS. The response back was What would surveyors use GPS for? My friend was also telling me that they are using GPS in the power industry to test the protection on the transmission lines, accurately timing tests - For those that don't realize, 50 Hz is radio, and you get reflections if you suddenly disconnect a power transmission line, so you have to unplug it at both ends at the right time. Darryl VK2TDS From eac@shore.net Thu Jan 07 19:46:20 1999 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24438 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:46:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from netlynn-s01-73.port.shore.net (shore.net) [207.244.109.73] by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) for tacgps@tapr.org id 0zyR0E-0006qA-00; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:46:18 -0500 Message-ID: <36956332.BBF1EFF1@shore.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:45:22 -0500 From: "Eric A. Cottrell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1987] Re: 2 GPS Questions References: <002801be39ed$22a31ca0$87228cd1@dodge.usa-site.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Sampson wrote: > > But shouldn't my speed be referenced to Alpha Centari? > > I'm not really standing still when I'm stopped at a light :-) > > > (~1 Hz / 1.6 GHz) * (speed of light) > > = (6*10e-10) * (3*10e5 km/sec) * (3.6*10e3 sec/hour) > > = ~0.65 km/hr = ~0.4 MPH Hello, Well it depends on your frame of reference. People use a earth surface reference that disregards earth's rotation and cosmic motion. When you are setting in a moving airplane in smooth level flight it is difficult to tell you are moving fast because everything around you is moving at the same speed. You need to reference objects outside the airplane to tell you are moving. GPS Satellites use the earth as a reference as well because they are orbiting the earth. If you look at the raw velocity vectors you will see the effects of earth's rotation but this is eliminated in the calculations so it gives you speed in reference to the earth's surface. I suspect that cosmic centered speeds are so high that if it was used in a speed calculation that any speed over the earth's surface would be insignificant. I rather know my speed over the earth's surface. 73 Eric eac@shore.net WB1HBU From eac@shore.net Thu Jan 07 20:42:05 1999 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26305 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:42:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from netlynn-s01-73.port.shore.net (shore.net) [207.244.109.73] by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) for tacgps@tapr.org id 0zyRsB-0001JV-00; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:42:03 -0500 Message-ID: <36957043.9BDEA86B@shore.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:41:07 -0500 From: "Eric A. Cottrell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1988] August 1998 Problem.... References: <36945B44.8CD5024E@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darryl Smith wrote: > My friend was also telling me that they are using GPS in the power > industry to test the protection on the transmission lines, accurately > timing tests - For those that don't realize, 50 Hz is radio, and you get > reflections if you suddenly disconnect a power transmission line, so you > have to unplug it at both ends at the right time. Hello, I work for a company that supplies equipment to do this testing. In fact I work with Protective Relaying testing equipment and had a hand in the creation of the GPS timing option. After the AMSAT meeting in Washington, DC I wrote a company memo talking about various GPS receivers. Dr. Tom Clark was demoing GPS receivers at the meeting so there is an indirect connection. The Power System is an interesting complex system as there is generation all over the place that are connected multiple ways to each other. On most transmission lines you simplify the network down to the line and two sources at each end (because there is usually generation somewhere out there off each end). Protective Relaying is used to protect the transmission lines and it controls circuit breakers at both ends of the line. 3-Phase AC is used. Although they are called relays they are actually measuring instruments that measure such things as Voltage, Current, and Impedance. To detect faults on transmission lines the voltage and current are measured and solved for impedance. If a fault occurs (arc over, tree touching, etc) then the protection at both ends of the line will detect the impedance change and will trip it's breaker and isolate the line. Due to various considerations (like the fact there is a complex network beyond the line) there is a simple communications link between the two relays. Power companies like to do tests to see if these two relays are coordinated and will properly operate. If they misoperate then too wide a area could lose power. They test by using AC voltage and current sources to replay actual or calculated fault waveforms into the protective relays. They will have two (or more) sets of AC sources that can be separated by many miles. The sets of AC sources need to start replaying the fault recording at the same time. They also need to use the same phase and frequency reference. The GPS receivers provide all this. It allows power companies to test equipment on-site and using more realistic conditions. 73 Eric eac@shore.net From tvb@veritas.com Sun Jan 10 18:51:19 1999 Received: from athena.veritas.com (athena.veritas.com [192.203.46.191]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04628 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:51:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by athena.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA06916; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from v-tomvb6 by megami.veritas.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.0 #7) id m0zzVZY-0000imC; Sun, 10 Jan 99 16:51 PST Message-ID: <369949EA.980@veritas.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:46:34 -0800 From: Tom Van Baak Reply-To: tvb@veritas.com Organization: VERITAS Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org CC: DougHo@niceties.com Subject: Casio GPS Watch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's been talk of the new Casio GPS wristwatch in sci.geo.satellite-nav. Press release (Japanese): http://www.casio.co.jp/productnews/gps.html Press release (English): http://www.casio.com/corporate/pressdetail.cfm?ID=51 Small photos: http://www.casio.co.jp/productnews/images/gps.jpg http://www.casio.co.jp/productnews/images/gpsb.jpg Large photos: http://www.casio.co.jp/productnews/images/gpsx.jpg http://www.casio.co.jp/productnews/images/gpsbx.jpg /tvb From gordon@ubr.com Sun Jan 10 19:17:20 1999 Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05425 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:17:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from gordon.san.rr.com (dt065na2.san.rr.com [24.94.13.162]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with SMTP id RAA01482 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:16:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901110116.RAA01482@proxy4.ba.best.com> X-Sender: guber@shell15.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:16:49 -0800 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: Gordon Uber Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1993] Casio GPS Watch In-Reply-To: <369949EA.980@veritas.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom, Many thanks for the post. 1. Any price announced yet? 2. Are you going to post to hor-sci as well? Gordon At 04:54 PM 1/10/99 , you wrote: >There's been talk of the new Casio GPS wristwatch in >sci.geo.satellite-nav. Gordon Uber gordon@ubr.com Reynen & Uber Web Design http://www.ubr.com/rey&ubr/ Webmaster: Clocks and Time http://www.ubr.com/clocks/ From hburford@airmail.net Sun Jan 10 23:56:04 1999 Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA16432 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:56:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from harry233 from [207.136.50.6] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.377) with smtp for sender: id ; Sun, 10 Jan 99 23:56:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Harry Burford" To: Subject: RE: [TACGPS:1994] Re: Casio GPS Watch Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:56:17 -0600 Message-ID: <000201be3d27$1a881f60$e96f6f6f@harry233> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199901110116.RAA01482@proxy4.ba.best.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Article from UK that was posted on another SIG said 50,000 to 70,000 Yen which translates to a tad less than $500 or so. Other discussion was that battery life was only about 10 hours. I wonder if the watch sets it's own time off the GPS signal. Wouldn't that make it about 15 seconds off from the time standard? hb > -----Original Message----- > From: tacgps@tapr.org [mailto:tacgps@tapr.org]On Behalf Of Gordon Uber > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 7:21 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:1994] Re: Casio GPS Watch > > > Tom, > > Many thanks for the post. > > 1. Any price announced yet? > > 2. Are you going to post to hor-sci as well? > > Gordon > > > At 04:54 PM 1/10/99 , you wrote: > >There's been talk of the new Casio GPS wristwatch in > >sci.geo.satellite-nav. > > Gordon Uber gordon@ubr.com > Reynen & Uber Web Design http://www.ubr.com/rey&ubr/ > Webmaster: Clocks and Time http://www.ubr.com/clocks/ > > From tac@clark.net Mon Jan 11 08:48:39 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA15742 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:48:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from tac.clark.net by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:47:56 -0500 Message-Id: <369A0F13.EE1A6717@clark.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:47:47 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: tac@clark.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1995] Re: Casio GPS Watch References: <000201be3d27$1a881f60$e96f6f6f@harry233> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harry Burford wrote: > > Article from UK that was posted on another SIG said 50,000 to 70,000 Yen > which translates to a tad less than $500 or so. Other discussion was that > battery life was only about 10 hours.... I'm not too surprised about the announcement. The specs, as published on the web page at http://www.casio.com/corporate/pressdetail.cfm?ID=51 show it to be fairly bulky (by wrist watch standards) with about half the volume of a unit like the GPSIII (as well as being a real battery hog): > Screen Size: .69" (H) x .82" (W), 32 x 31 dots > Other: Alarm, EL backlight (two-second afterglow) > Battery: CR2 x 1 > Battery life: 600 individual readings minimum – Approximately 10 hours of 1-minute > automatic reading – Approximately 3.4 hours of 1-second continuous reading > Dimensions: 2.55" x 2.59" x 1.14" > Weight: Approximately 5.22 oz. It would appear that the press release was written by a non-GPSer who doesn't understand the distinction between an antenna an a microwave+DSP receiver: > GPS Antenna > > Reception Frequency: 1575.42MHz > Reception Protocol: Parallel 8-channel > Measurement Cycle: 1 second minimum (continuous reading) > Antenna type: Flat surface, small area. It would appear that since the screen is small, it doesn't look like it has much mapping capability -- Text only 31x32 pixel display implies minimal graphics. Cute toy, though. I'll buy one for my pet Furby. Continuing, in response to Harry's comments: > ....... I wonder if the watch sets it's own > time off the GPS signal. Wouldn't that make it about 15 seconds > off from the time standard? NO NO NO -- this comment reflects a popular "urban myth". Although the GPS system runs on GPS time (which is an integer number of seconds different from UTC), and although leap second jumps are inserted every ~18 months, each and every GPS satellite broadcasts the current time difference between GPS and UTC time every 30 seconds. This data is an integral part of the 1500 bit, 50 bit/sec downlink data message. This is the same message that conveys the almanac data for all satellites which, when combined with an estimate of the current time and location, allows your receiver to know which satellites to look for. And it is the same message that provides ephemeris data for that satellite that puts it in a ~10-20 meter box so that you can use it for navigation. The receiver must make its navigation calculations with an internal clock that is accurate to a small fraction of a millisecond since the satellites move in their orbits at speeds ~7 km/sec (i.e. ~7 meters/millisecond). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Soapbox time regarding the Urban Myth -- FLAME ON -- Any receiver manufacturer who fails to make use of the broadcast GPS minus UTC correction information would have to be regarded as a morally depraved Luddite! I doubt that Casio would have made such a grievous and inexcusable error. Occasionally some manufacurers sin by calling the time that they display as "GPS Time" (GPS time has a very precise definition and differes from UTC by an integer number of seconds) when they should use the more correct phraseology "UTC time derived from GPS", but this is hardly an Impeachable Offense ;<} 73, Tom From jjjohnson@saiph.hpl.hp.com Mon Jan 11 10:53:47 1999 Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20031 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:53:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from saiph.hpl.hp.com (saiph.hpl.hp.com [15.9.144.186]) by hplms26.hpl.hp.com (8.9.1a/HPL-PA Relay) with ESMTP id IAA14588 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jjjohnson@localhost) by saiph.hpl.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.6 HPLabs) id IAA03207 for tacgps@tapr.org; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:53:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Johnson Message-Id: <199901111653.IAA03207@saiph.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1996] Re: Casio GPS Watch To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 8:53:38 PST In-Reply-To: <369A0F13.EE1A6717@clark.net>; from "Dr Thomas A Clark" at Jan 11, 99 8:50 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.19] > Tom Clark writes: > > I'm not too surprised about the announcement. The specs, as published > on the web page at http://www.casio.com/corporate/pressdetail.cfm?ID=51 > show it to be fairly bulky (by wrist watch standards) with about half the > volume of a unit like the GPSIII (as well as being a real battery hog): > > Screen Size: .69" (H) x .82" (W), 32 x 31 dots > > Other: Alarm, EL backlight (two-second afterglow) > > Battery: CR2 x 1 > > Battery life: 600 individual readings minimum – Approximately 10 hours > of 1-minute > > automatic reading – Approximately 3.4 hours of 1-second continuous > reading > > Dimensions: 2.55" x 2.59" x 1.14" > > Weight: Approximately 5.22 oz. > Tom, This is reminiscent of the Hewlett-Packard HP-01 watch of yesteryear. It was big, heavy, expensive, had an LED display, and was a battery hog. Didn't last long in the marketplace but was a nifty idea at the time. It now seems to be a collector's item. 73, Jim W6SC jjohnson@hpl.hp.com From tvb@veritas.com Mon Jan 11 11:56:01 1999 Received: from athena.veritas.com (athena.veritas.com [192.203.46.191]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22643 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:56:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by athena.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA19582 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from v-tomvb6 by megami.veritas.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.0 #7) id m0zzlZG-0000hOC; Mon, 11 Jan 99 09:55 PST Message-ID: <369A3A18.16FC@veritas.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:51:20 -0800 From: Tom Van Baak Reply-To: tvb@veritas.com Organization: VERITAS Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1994] Re: Casio GPS Watch References: <199901110116.RAA01482@proxy4.ba.best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gordon Uber wrote: > 2. Are you going to post to hor-sci as well? Thanks for the reminder. /tvb From hburford@airmail.net Mon Jan 11 19:46:07 1999 Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA20563 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:46:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from harry233 from [207.136.50.30] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.377) with smtp for sender: id ; Mon, 11 Jan 99 19:46:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Harry Burford" To: Subject: RE: [TACGPS:1996] Re: Casio GPS Watch --> time standards Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:46:21 -0600 Message-ID: <000601be3dcd$5b2209e0$e96f6f6f@harry233> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <369A0F13.EE1A6717@clark.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Tom: Thanks for the clarification. I've noticed that the time I get from the GPS to set the watch is a predictable 15 seconds or so off from the time I get from other sources. In fact the new years count down shown on TV recently was off as compared to the GPS. My first thought was that I was experiencing an electronic delay as the signals flow thru the networks and the GPS HAD to be correct. Your expenation helped clear things up. Didn't even know the 'urban myth' existed. Guess I really stepped in it. Hope the flames were in general and not targeted. hb > Continuing, in response to Harry's comments: > > ....... I wonder if the watch sets it's own > > time off the GPS signal. Wouldn't that make it about 15 seconds > > off from the time standard? > > NO NO NO -- this comment reflects a popular "urban myth". Although the > GPS system runs on GPS time (which is an integer number of seconds > different from UTC), and although leap second jumps are inserted every > ~18 months, each and every GPS satellite broadcasts the current time > difference between GPS and UTC time every 30 seconds. This data is an > integral part of the 1500 bit, 50 bit/sec downlink data message. > > This is the same message that conveys the almanac data for all satellites > which, when combined with an estimate of the current time and location, > allows your receiver to know which satellites to look for. And it is the > same message that provides ephemeris data for that satellite that puts it > in a ~10-20 meter box so that you can use it for navigation. The receiver > must make its navigation calculations with an internal clock that is > accurate to a small fraction of a millisecond since the satellites > move in their orbits at speeds ~7 km/sec (i.e. ~7 meters/millisecond). > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Soapbox time regarding the Urban Myth -- FLAME ON -- > > Any receiver manufacturer who fails to make use of the broadcast GPS > minus UTC correction information would have to be regarded as a morally > depraved Luddite! I doubt that Casio would have made such a grievous > and inexcusable error. > > Occasionally some manufacurers sin by calling the time that they display > as "GPS Time" (GPS time has a very precise definition and differes from > UTC by an integer number of seconds) when they should use the more > correct phraseology "UTC time derived from GPS", but this is hardly > an Impeachable Offense ;<} > > 73, Tom > > From gregory.beat@mediaone.net Mon Jan 11 21:05:34 1999 Received: from elmls02.ce.mediaone.net (elmls02.ce.mediaone.net [24.131.128.27]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23608 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:05:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from clarke (d152-235.ce.mediaone.net [24.131.152.235]) by elmls02.ce.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13680 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:05:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001a01be3dd8$6f994ae0$eb988318@clarke.ce.mediaone.net> From: "G. Beat" To: Subject: Furby GPS Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:05:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 > Dr Thomas A Clark >It would appear that since the screen is small, it doesn't look like it >has much mapping capability -- Text only 31x32 pixel display implies >minimal graphics. Cute toy, though. I'll buy one for my pet Furby. Tom's comment begs the question --- why would a Furby want to know where it is? :) G. Beat From dan.hinz@ieee.org Mon Jan 11 23:02:28 1999 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28003; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:02:27 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA13909; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:01:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from sji-ca13-01.ix.netcom.com(209.109.238.1) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013849; Mon Jan 11 23:01:13 1999 Message-ID: <369AD4E0.BF2817A2@ieee.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:51:44 -0800 From: Dan Hinz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org, tac32@tapr.org Subject: two from one Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have the luxury of having a "spare" P90 Win95 PC to collect GPS data. I am using the TAC-2 interface board. I would like to be able to run both TAC32 and SAWatch from one receiver on the same COM port. Is there a way to do this or does anyone know of a software program that would allow me to share the data for the two programs? I realize that I would have to be smart enough to not try and "talk to" the GPS from both S/W, but would like both S/W to "listen to" the GPS. I have tried installing a board with two additional COM ports and after much wrestling can only get the computer to recognize one of the "New" com ports. Any suggestions? thanks, Dan W6LSN From mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us Tue Jan 12 08:58:43 1999 Received: from ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us (ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us [198.209.221.106]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00899 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:58:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from MPetz.stlcc.cc.mo.us ([198.209.221.61]) by ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13191) with SMTP id AAA164 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:57:38 -0600 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990112085841.4c5fddec@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us> X-Sender: mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tacgps@tapr.org From: mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us (Michael Petz) Subject: case for TAPR DGPS board Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:57:38 -0600 Has anyone obtained a case for the TAPR DGPS board and daughter GPS board that was shown at Dayton '98? I looked at the TAPR site and did not see the board or coax assemble listed. Does anyone know where I can get this cast aluminum box with the machined holes for the antenna, power, and DB-9 connector? I would also like to get the coax assemble, but this is not as important as the case. TNX Michael KA9HNT mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us From dhaselwood@ij.net Tue Jan 12 09:04:17 1999 Received: from solomon (solomon.ij.net [207.22.166.254]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA01167 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:04:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from [209.4.43.11] by solomon (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ka288298 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:09:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990112063947.007b29e0@POP3.ij.net> X-Sender: dhaselwood@POP3.ij.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:39:47 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: Donald E Haselwood Subject: [TACGPS:2001] two from one Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dan, Sounds like feeding two ports should work. I have a P-100 and added a 4-port card that I got from: http://www.byterunner.com The four additional ports can share one IRQ. Not all comport boards are designed to share one IRQ, however. Byterunner's web site has some instructions for setting up comports that share one IRQ (a few gymnastics, but not complicated). The main problem I have is that most programs are not setup to allow selecting port numbers greater than COM4. Fortunately, TAC32 does. I have't looked at SAWatch, but I assume you have one free port in the COM1-4 range that could be used for it. 73's Don, W4DH At 11:11 PM 1/11/99 -0600, you wrote: >I have the luxury of having a "spare" P90 Win95 PC to collect GPS data. >I >am using the TAC-2 interface board. > >I would like to be able to run both TAC32 and SAWatch from one receiver >on >the same COM port. Is there a way to do this or does anyone know of a >software program that would allow me to share the data for the two >programs? I realize that I would have to be smart enough to not try and > >"talk to" the GPS from both S/W, but would like both S/W to "listen to" >the >GPS. > >I have tried installing a board with two additional COM ports and after >much wrestling can only get the computer to recognize one of the "New" >com >ports. > >Any suggestions? >thanks, >Dan W6LSN From buoy@redshift.com Tue Jan 12 10:10:44 1999 Received: from mail.redshift.com (mail.redshift.com [209.54.200.6]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03639 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:10:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from buoy.mcktech.com (pm4-181.sal.redshift.com [207.204.198.181]) by mail.redshift.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA07494 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:10:33 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01be3e44$5809fb60$b5c6cccf@buoy.mcktech.com> From: "Doug McKinney" To: Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2002] case for TAPR DGPS board Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:57:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Petz To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 7:12 AM Subject: [TACGPS:2002] case for TAPR DGPS board > Has anyone obtained a case for the TAPR DGPS board and daughter GPS >board that was shown at Dayton '98? I looked at the TAPR site and did not >see the board or coax assemble listed. Does anyone know where I can get this >cast aluminum box with the machined holes for the antenna, power, and DB-9 >connector? I would also like to get the coax assemble, but this is not as >important as the case. > > TNX > Michael > KA9HNT > mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us > It is I, Doug KC3RL, who has the cases. Without significant demand, an inventory is not economical for TAPR. I have 14 cases machined and I need to make the antenna cables. Do you have the DGPSIB, if so then you only need the case, antenna cable, the 2 other case connectors and instructions for connection. Let me know and I can give you a cost. 73's Doug 831-663-4999 Doug@mt.to From spark51@ibm.net Tue Jan 12 10:53:06 1999 Received: from roadrunner.sig.net (roadrunner.sig.net [192.195.85.203]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05379 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:53:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from host-rls (dynamic45.fbtc-rtr1.fbtc.net [204.2.10.45]) by roadrunner.sig.net (8.9.0/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA03436 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:51:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Ron L. Sparks" To: Subject: RE: [TACGPS:2000] Furby GPS Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:53:13 -0600 Message-ID: <001301be3e4c$0b0b9e60$02651964@host-rls.fbtc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <001a01be3dd8$6f994ae0$eb988318@clarke.ce.mediaone.net> Importance: Normal Because it has to make a lot of corporate meetings in strange cities to discuss how to keep the Furby market value high in the face of stiff competition from Beanie Babies. Beanie Babies are known for their aggressive use of technology to leverage their positions vis-a-vis stakeholder concerns. Their recent reorganization has allowed them to flatten their organization maximizing the available interface time and streamlining throughput of relevant societal concepts from management creative teaming. If the Furbys don't vigorously attack market share through an improvement of technology application they could easily slip into the "garage sale" niche relegating the entire organization to a backwater status. Ron -----Original Message----- From: tacgps@tapr.org [mailto:tacgps@tapr.org] On Behalf Of G. Beat Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 9:09 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:2000] Furby GPS > Dr Thomas A Clark >It would appear that since the screen is small, it doesn't look like it >has much mapping capability -- Text only 31x32 pixel display implies >minimal graphics. Cute toy, though. I'll buy one for my pet Furby. Tom's comment begs the question --- why would a Furby want to know where it is? :) G. Beat From gsanders@gte.net Tue Jan 12 23:10:03 1999 Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11745 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:10:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust68.tnt1.lakeland.fl.gt.uu.net [208.255.231.68]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id XAA02817 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:10:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369C2AA7.5766F3A9@gte.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:09:59 -0500 From: Gary Sanders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TAC Newsgroup Subject: Question - Racal-Dana Counter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I just picked up a Racal-Dana model 1994 universal counter with option 04E (so-called High Stability Precision Frequency Standard), and was wondering if anybody knows if this timebase is capable of being modified to be driven by Brooks Shera's GPS derived controller. The oscillator module looks like it has just 3 wires going to it's circuit board - power, ground and RF out. Normally I'd just order a manual from the manufacturer and check the schematic, but when I called them, they quoted me 100 bucks for "a manual", and they couldn't tell me if it was an operator's or a service manual! (Needless to say, a hundred bucks would be a bit much to pay to learn which buttons to push.) Thanks in advance, Gary Sanders From barnie@flash.net Wed Jan 13 00:03:53 1999 Received: from centurion.flash.net (centurion.flash.net [209.30.0.22]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22506 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:03:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from flash.net (p102.utc2.dialup.tus1.flash.net [209.30.43.102]) by centurion.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04303 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:03:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369C3745.9E29B78D@flash.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:03:49 -0700 From: Jeff Vollin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2001] two from one References: <369AD4E0.BF2817A2@ieee.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I assume your question is more to do with the GPS's than the COM ports. If you are running TAC32 in the timing mode, i.e., 0-D position hold mode, the GPS is thinking it is at the position you gave it for reference and using all its degrees of freedom to compute the best possible time solution. I would think this would preclude the nav data you need for SA Watch. If you are willing to put the GPS in the 3-D nav mode and sacrifice the precision timing, you can do what you want. In that case, you can tell SA Watch to look for generic NMEA and it will decode the results from the GPS without ever talking to it. You may have to wire a special cable to feed the data out from the GPS to both COM ports data in and the data out from the TAC32 COM port to the GPS. I did this using a Garmin GPS just to see if it would work, with no regard for precision timing. Jeff Vollin, KC6WFU Dan Hinz wrote: > I have the luxury of having a "spare" P90 Win95 PC to collect GPS data. > I > am using the TAC-2 interface board. > > I would like to be able to run both TAC32 and SAWatch from one receiver > on > the same COM port. Is there a way to do this or does anyone know of a > software program that would allow me to share the data for the two > programs? I realize that I would have to be smart enough to not try and > > "talk to" the GPS from both S/W, but would like both S/W to "listen to" > the > GPS. > > I have tried installing a board with two additional COM ports and after > much wrestling can only get the computer to recognize one of the "New" > com > ports. > > Any suggestions? > thanks, > Dan W6LSN From clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Jan 13 14:58:32 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00409 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:58:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from scheat.gsfc.nasa.gov by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:57:57 -0500 Message-Id: <369D08D5.8806C69D@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:57:57 -0500 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2007] Re: two from one References: <369C3745.9E29B78D@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In addition to Jeff Vollin's comments to Dan, W6LSN: > [snip] > you can tell SA Watch to look for generic NMEA and it will decode > the results from the GPS without ever talking to it. You may have > to wire a special cable to feed the data out from the GPS to both > COM ports data in and the data out from the TAC32 COM port to the GPS. Dan said he was running a full TAC-2. My TAC-2 board allows for two computer connections already. The logic on the board has an OR gate to accept inputs to the receiver on either/both Port #1 &/or Port #2. The TAC-2 logic includes a "squelch" function that disables port #2 when data is being received on Port #1 -- thus Port #1 has priority and squelches Port #2. To do what Dan suggested, TAC32 MUST be set up in the 4800 baud Motorola NMEA mode, and I'd suggest it use the TAC-2 priority Port #1. SA Watch should be usable on port #2 in its Motorola mode, but generic NMEA should be OK also. As Jeff pointed out, the main pupose for SA Watch is to study the apparent motion of the fixed receiver running in 3D positioning mode. And 3D mode will give poorer clock -- you can see the difference in ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/oso-d270.gif 73, Tom From mdmiller@eaze.net Thu Jan 14 07:56:44 1999 Received: from mail.eaze.net (qmailr@mail.eaze.net [209.160.106.3]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA04266 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:56:44 -0600 (CST) From: mdmiller@eaze.net Received: (qmail 11853 invoked from network); 14 Jan 1999 13:40:40 -0000 Received: from fred.slimpy.eaze.net (HELO miller.slimpy.eaze.net) (209.160.127.50) by mail.eaze.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 1999 13:40:40 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990114075559.007dbec0@mail.eaze.net> X-Sender: mdmiller@mail.eaze.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:55:59 -0600 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:1996] GPS vs. UTC In-Reply-To: <369A0F13.EE1A6717@clark.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom Clark wrote: >Occasionally some manufacurers sin by calling the time that they display >as "GPS Time" (GPS time has a very precise definition and differes from >UTC by an integer number of seconds) when they should use the more >correct phraseology "UTC time derived from GPS", but this is hardly >an Impeachable Offense ;<} I have also seen the reverse happen. In the paging industry we use GPS time to sychronize data bits for simulcast transmission within a system and frame synchronization inter-system. One manufacturer labels the time on transmitter control equipment UTC when in fact it is GPS. The FLEX TM paging protocol requires the pager to remain synchronized with the infrastructure. Older protocols like POCSAG do not require this. GPS time is used over UTC because of the leap second that we are all familiar with. The FLEX TM protocol requires the the pager stay sychronized with the paging system to within 1 msec. A 1 second change in the system could cause all pagers in a system to be deaf for as long a 40 minutes. Another paging infrastructure manufacturer made the mistake of using UTC time in the early implementation of FLEX TM and had to send software patches to to customers every time a leap second was to occur. Now everyone is (or should be) on the same sheet of music. There are many stories like this in the telecommunications industry. 73 Mark Miller N5RFX From buoy@redshift.com Thu Jan 14 12:33:22 1999 Received: from mail.redshift.com (mail.redshift.com [209.54.200.6]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16637 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:33:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from buoy.mcktech.com (pm3-126.sal.redshift.com [207.204.198.126]) by mail.redshift.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA28913 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:33:06 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01be3fea$9a489de0$7ec6cccf@buoy.mcktech.com> From: "Doug McKinney" To: "by way of Michael Petz " Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2005] TACGPS digest 381 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:20:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 -----Original Message----- From: by way of Michael Petz To: Doug@mt.to Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:49 AM Subject: [TACGPS:2005] TACGPS digest 381 >I have the TAPR DGPS board and GPS mounted together and up and working. I >do need the case and the coax assembly. What are the the "other two case >connectors"? There would be two DB-9 connectors and the power, right? Is >there a hole for the LED also? Let me know about the price and availability. > Michael, the other case connectors are power, LED and Phone jack (or if preferred a RCA jack) for DGPS out. At www.tapr.org/~n7hpr/mcktech/ is a picture of the older enclosure format. The LED is added next to the antenna and the power jack is now a 4 pin screw down (mic jack). cost with shipping and handling is $50. Doug KC3RL 831-663-4999 Tnx > Michael > KA9HNT > mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Petz >To: tacgps@tapr.org >Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 7:12 AM >Subject: [TACGPS:2002] case for TAPR DGPS board > > >> Has anyone obtained a case for the TAPR DGPS board and daughter GPS >>board that was shown at Dayton '98? I looked at the TAPR site and did not >>see the board or coax assemble listed. Does anyone know where I can get >this >>cast aluminum box with the machined holes for the antenna, power, and DB-9 >>connector? I would also like to get the coax assemble, but this is not as >>important as the case. >> >> TNX >> Michael >> KA9HNT >> mpetz@ccm.stlcc.cc.mo.us >> >It is I, Doug KC3RL, who has the cases. Without significant demand, an >inventory is not economical for TAPR. I have 14 cases machined and I need >to make the antenna cables. Do you have the DGPSIB, if so then you only >need the case, antenna cable, the 2 other case connectors and instructions >for connection. Let me know and I can give you a cost. >73's >Doug >831-663-4999 >Doug@mt.to > > > From pgm@gti.noc.demon.net Fri Jan 15 10:10:04 1999 Received: from server.noc.demon.net (firewall-user@server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02854; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:03 -0600 (CST) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id QAA26797; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:10:00 GMT Received: from gti.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.101) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma026783; Fri, 15 Jan 99 16:09:56 GMT Received: (from pgm@localhost) by gti.noc.demon.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09872; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:09:54 GMT From: Patrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901151609.QAA09872@gti.noc.demon.net> Subject: What TAPR Directory? To: help@tapr.org, pgm@demon.net Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:09:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tacgps@tapr.org Reply-To: patmac@demon.net X-DNS-Queries-to: Please direct all DNS queries to: hostmaster@demon.net .............. +44-181-371-1000 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi The big yellow "Readme first" sheet of paper which comes with the TAC2 kit says look in the TAPR Directory for information about more help! What TAPR Directory is it referring to? And the three disks which came with my TAC2 kit are odd! Disk 1) TAC-32 v2.0 disk 1 of 2 cnsclock.pdf Disk 2) TAC-32 v2.0 disk 2 of 2 data2.cab Disk 3) TAC-32 v2.0 Documentation (pdf) cnsclock.pdf I don't know what data2.cab can do for me, my system is unix and are Disk 1 Disk 3 supposed to be the same? And they appear to explain all about a CNS Clock and TAC32 which I don't have. Am I supposed to have information which helps me with the assembly of the TAC2 PPS conversion circuit board? Because that's all I've bought from you. I have two extremely useful looking documents: 1) Totally Accurate Clock II Assembly Manual 2) TAC-2 Operations Manual Am I to work from these and junk the three disks or is there other useful stuff which ought to have arrived on floppy disks and never did? Regards patmac -- Demon Internet system administrator timelord@demon.net DFAX +441813714009 pgp keys:finger: pgm@demon.net (demon) pgm@pgm.noc.demon.net (cityscape) 322 Regents Park Road, Finchley, London N3 2QQ, England (0181-371-1000) From pgm@gti.noc.demon.net Fri Jan 15 10:42:01 1999 Received: from server.noc.demon.net (firewall-user@server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04213; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:41:59 -0600 (CST) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id QAA02408; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:41:58 GMT Received: from gti.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.101) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma002383; Fri, 15 Jan 99 16:41:54 GMT Received: (from pgm@localhost) by gti.noc.demon.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10453; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:41:52 GMT From: Patrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901151641.QAA10453@gti.noc.demon.net> Subject: The width of my PPS signal To: tapr@tapr.org, jeff@truetime.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:41:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tacgps@tapr.org Reply-To: patmac@demon.net X-DNS-Queries-to: Please direct all DNS queries to: hostmaster@demon.net .............. +44-181-371-1000 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jeff I hope this reaches Jeff MacDonald at Truetime! If not please can this message be passed either to him or Greg Kret. -Q: My Truetime XL-AK receiver has a 50 ohm 1PPS, 20 us wide (which I believe to be 5v) My TAC-2 kit assumes a 1PPS signal 100 msec or 200 msec (http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/tac2.html) Is there a chance that the TAC-2 will miss the signal altogether? Regards patmac -- Demon Internet system administrator timelord@demon.net DFAX +441813714009 pgp keys:finger: pgm@demon.net (demon) pgm@pgm.noc.demon.net (cityscape) 322 Regents Park Road, Finchley, London N3 2QQ, England (0181-371-1000) From wd5ivd@tapr.org Fri Jan 15 11:31:57 1999 Received: from [207.8.125.50] (greg-jones-pc1.customer.jump.net [207.8.125.50]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06183; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:31:55 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901151609.QAA09872@gti.noc.demon.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:31:48 -0600 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2011] What TAPR Directory? Cc: Dorothy Jones It looks like a disk image 3 got a Disk Label of 1 attached to it during duplication of disks at at the office. I just called up and we went through the pile and found two other disks like this in the Disk 1 box and got them corrected. I was worried that we had the wrong disk image loaded on the office system, but that wasn't the case. Sorry about this little mistake. We don't keep the TAC-32 disk iamges on the TAPR site, but the TAC-32 v2 image is kept on http://www.cnssys.com/tac32/ and in ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2/Tac32v2 If getting it off the CNS site will not work, please let Dorothy know and we can send you another Disk 1. As to the TAC-2 directory it is ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2 You'll find most of the support you need on this list. Cheers - Greg >Hi > >The big yellow "Readme first" sheet of paper which comes with the >TAC2 kit says look in the TAPR Directory for information about more help! >What TAPR Directory is it referring to? And the three disks >which came with my TAC2 kit are odd! > >Disk 1) TAC-32 v2.0 disk 1 of 2 cnsclock.pdf >Disk 2) TAC-32 v2.0 disk 2 of 2 data2.cab >Disk 3) TAC-32 v2.0 Documentation (pdf) cnsclock.pdf > > I don't know what data2.cab can do for me, my system is unix and >are Disk 1 Disk 3 supposed to be the same? And they appear to explain all >about a CNS Clock and TAC32 which I don't have. Am I supposed >to have information which helps me with the assembly of the TAC2 PPS >conversion circuit board? Because that's all I've bought from you. > >I have two extremely useful looking documents: >1) Totally Accurate Clock II Assembly Manual >2) TAC-2 Operations Manual > > Am I to work from these and junk the three disks or is there other >useful stuff which ought to have arrived on floppy disks and never >did? > > >Regards >patmac >-- >Demon Internet system administrator timelord@demon.net DFAX +441813714009 >pgp keys:finger: pgm@demon.net (demon) pgm@pgm.noc.demon.net (cityscape) >322 Regents Park Road, Finchley, London N3 2QQ, England (0181-371-1000) ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd From pgm@ns0.help-desk.co.uk Fri Jan 15 11:53:36 1999 Received: from ns0.help-desk.co.uk (ns0.help-desk.co.uk [212.240.170.18]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06699 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:53:34 -0600 (CST) Received: (from pgm@localhost) by ns0.help-desk.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16968 for tacgps@tapr.org; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:53:33 GMT (envelope-from pgm) From: User PgmPatrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901151753.RAA16968@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2013] Re: What TAPR Directory? In-Reply-To: from "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" at "Jan 15, 99 11:33:43 am" To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:53:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK :-) but it still seems like you referring me to TAC32 help and I never bought a TAC32 from you. I suspect I just need the tac2 directory. :-) By the way have you seen my next question about the width of my 1PPS signal being 10000 times smaller than the 200 micro second signal the TAC-2 is expecting. How am I going to ensure the circuit doesn't completely miss the signal? pat > If getting it off the CNS site will not work, please let Dorothy know and > we can send you another Disk 1. > > As to the TAC-2 directory it is ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2 > From wd5ivd@tapr.org Fri Jan 15 12:16:43 1999 Received: from [207.8.125.50] (greg-jones-pc1.customer.jump.net [207.8.125.50]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07461 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:16:36 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901151753.RAA16968@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> References: from "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" at "Jan 15, 99 11:33:43 am" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:36 -0600 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2014] Re: What TAPR Directory? As of January, TAPR is now providing an evaluation copy of TAC-32 with the TAC-2 kits. This has replaced the previous Showtime software that was originally provided with TAC-2. You can use the evaluation copy of TAC-32 for up to 30 days. This allows builders of the TAC-2 kit to test their kits as soon as they get it built and operational. You can license after the eval time is up if you need to, but it isn't required. Your post indicated that you got a mislabled Disk 1. In order to get TAC-32 operational, you'll need to get the Disk 1 image off the TAPR site: ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2/Tac32v2/Disks/ As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see responses later today when people on the list start getting home from work. Cheers - Greg >OK :-) but it still seems like you referring me to TAC32 help and >I never bought a TAC32 from you. I suspect I just need the >tac2 directory. :-) > By the way have you seen my next question about the width of my >1PPS signal being 10000 times smaller than the 200 micro second >signal the TAC-2 is expecting. How am I going to ensure the >circuit doesn't completely miss the signal? >pat > > >> If getting it off the CNS site will not work, please let Dorothy know and >> we can send you another Disk 1. >> >> As to the TAC-2 directory it is ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2 >> ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd From pgm@gti.noc.demon.net Fri Jan 15 13:22:22 1999 Received: from server.noc.demon.net (firewall-user@server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09996 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:22:21 -0600 (CST) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id TAA18588; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:20 GMT Received: from gti.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.101) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma018582; Fri, 15 Jan 99 19:22:16 GMT Received: (from pgm@localhost) by gti.noc.demon.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12497 for tacgps@tapr.org; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:15 GMT From: Patrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901151922.TAA12497@gti.noc.demon.net> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2015] Re: What TAPR Directory? In-Reply-To: from "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" at "Jan 15, 99 12:20:25 pm" To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:15 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: patmac@demon.net X-DNS-Queries-to: Please direct all DNS queries to: hostmaster@demon.net .............. +44-181-371-1000 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah I see where you're headed now :-) pat > As of January, TAPR is now providing an evaluation copy of TAC-32 with the > TAC-2 kits. This has replaced the previous Showtime software that was > originally provided with TAC-2. > > You can use the evaluation copy of TAC-32 for up to 30 days. This allows > builders of the TAC-2 kit to test their kits as soon as they get it built > and operational. You can license after the eval time is up if you need to, > but it isn't required. > > Your post indicated that you got a mislabled Disk 1. In order to get > TAC-32 operational, you'll need to get the Disk 1 image off the TAPR site: > ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2/Tac32v2/Disks/ > > As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the > experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see > responses later today when people on the list start getting home from work. > > Cheers - Greg > > >OK :-) but it still seems like you referring me to TAC32 help and > >I never bought a TAC32 from you. I suspect I just need the > >tac2 directory. :-) > > By the way have you seen my next question about the width of my > >1PPS signal being 10000 times smaller than the 200 micro second > >signal the TAC-2 is expecting. How am I going to ensure the > >circuit doesn't completely miss the signal? > >pat > > > > > >> If getting it off the CNS site will not work, please let Dorothy know and > >> we can send you another Disk 1. > >> > >> As to the TAC-2 directory it is ftp://ftp.tapr.org/tac2 > >> > > ----- > Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas > wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd > > From ssampson@usa-site.net Fri Jan 15 18:37:04 1999 Received: from access.usa-site.net (access.usa-site.net [209.140.34.130]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03251 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:37:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ssampson@localhost) by access.usa-site.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26794 for tacgps@tapr.org; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:37:07 -0600 From: Steve Sampson Message-Id: <199901160037.SAA26794@access.usa-site.net> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2015] Re: What TAPR Directory? To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:37:06 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" at Jan 15, 99 12:20:25 pm Content-Type: text This is a great piece of software. I have received all the updates the last year, and every version is still as stable as the first, with whatever added capability was added. If you are interested in GPS time, or DGPS, this is the software that does all the right stuff, and it's cheap. Because of that I didn't have to remember how to run DOS with Showtime :-) Thanks for TAPR distributing it, and CNS systems for programming the inexpensive solution. Steve > As of January, TAPR is now providing an evaluation copy of TAC-32 with the > TAC-2 kits. This has replaced the previous Showtime software that was > originally provided with TAC-2. From vk2tds@ozemail.com.au Sun Jan 17 04:54:34 1999 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (root@note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA17304 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:54:32 -0600 (CST) Received: From ozemail.com.au ([129.94.15.100]) By note With Smtp ; Sun, 17 Jan 99 21:52:31 +1100 From: Darryl Smith To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:44:54 +1100 Message-ID: <36A1BF25.56F1A673@ozemail.com.au> Organization: Quite poor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: UT vs. VP Oncore. References: <199901150109.TAA15141@tapr.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'Day I purchased 2 Oncore's mail order, for use on APRS. Unfortunately when I got them they turned out to be the UT version which does not have NMEA. They do have a far more accurate 1pps and actually have a 100 pps output. I was wondering if anyone on the list was wanting to swap a UT for a VP oncore. I have no idea of the retail cost of the UT so sorry if this is a stupid suggestion. Darryl VK2TDS From pgm@ns0.help-desk.co.uk Sun Jan 17 06:36:22 1999 Received: from ns0.help-desk.co.uk (ns0.help-desk.co.uk [212.240.170.18]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28358 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 06:36:21 -0600 (CST) Received: (from pgm@localhost) by ns0.help-desk.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17604 for tacgps@tapr.org; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:36:20 GMT (envelope-from pgm) From: User PgmPatrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901171236.MAA17604@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2015] Re: What TAPR Directory? In-Reply-To: from "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" at "Jan 15, 99 12:20:25 pm" To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:36:19 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No-one seems to know about the width of my signal, what do you think I should do next? It's really urgent, this project is several months over due. pat > As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the > experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see > responses later today when people on the list start getting home from work. > > Cheers - Greg > From ssampson@usa-site.net Sun Jan 17 09:00:56 1999 Received: from access.usa-site.net (access.usa-site.net [209.140.34.130]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01946 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:00:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ssampson@localhost) by access.usa-site.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA04696 for tacgps@tapr.org; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:00:54 -0600 From: Steve Sampson Message-Id: <199901171500.JAA04696@access.usa-site.net> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2019] Re: What TAPR Directory? To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:00:54 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199901171236.MAA17604@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> from "User PgmPatrick MacKeown" at Jan 17, 99 06:38:30 am Content-Type: text Width of what signal? GPS? > > No-one seems to know about the width of my signal, what do you think I should > do next? It's really urgent, this project is several months over due. > > pat > > > As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the > > experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see > > responses later today when people on the list start getting home from work. > > > > Cheers - Greg > > > From pgm@ns0.help-desk.co.uk Sun Jan 17 09:21:51 1999 Received: from ns0.help-desk.co.uk (ns0.help-desk.co.uk [212.240.170.18]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02489 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:21:50 -0600 (CST) Received: (from pgm@localhost) by ns0.help-desk.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19480 for tacgps@tapr.org; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:21:49 GMT (envelope-from pgm) From: User PgmPatrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901171521.PAA19480@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2020] Re: What TAPR Directory? In-Reply-To: <199901171500.JAA04696@access.usa-site.net> from Steve Sampson at "Jan 17, 99 09:05:19 am" To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:21:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, BNC 5v 1PPS 20 usec wide. That's what I wanted the TAC-2 for to convert the rising-edge signal to an RS232 input. But I didn't realise the TAC-2 was expecting a rising-edge signal between 100 msec and 200 msec leading me to fear that building the kit may serve no purpose if it can't detect my tiny signal pat > Width of what signal? GPS? > > > > > > > > No-one seems to know about the width of my signal, what do you think I should > > do next? It's really urgent, this project is several months over due. > > > > pat > > > > > As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the > > > experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see > > > responses later today when people on the list start getting home from work. > > > > > > Cheers - Greg > > > > > > > From rick@cnssys.com Sun Jan 17 09:46:04 1999 Received: from gw.cnssys.com (root@cnssys.com [207.97.17.1]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03334 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:46:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from rick (rick.cnssys.com [207.97.17.16]) by gw.cnssys.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA14178 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:45:57 -0500 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: Subject: RE: [TACGPS:2021] Re: What TAPR Directory? Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:45:36 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4230$6d17eae0$101161cf@rick.cnssys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <199901171521.PAA19480@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Implement the optional pulse stretcher circuit on the Tac-2 board that was designed for the Trimble OEM receiver, which has a similar problem. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: tacgps@tapr.org [mailto:tacgps@tapr.org]On Behalf Of User PgmPatrick MacKeown Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 10:26 AM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:2021] Re: What TAPR Directory? No, BNC 5v 1PPS 20 usec wide. That's what I wanted the TAC-2 for to convert the rising-edge signal to an RS232 input. But I didn't realise the TAC-2 was expecting a rising-edge signal between 100 msec and 200 msec leading me to fear that building the kit may serve no purpose if it can't detect my tiny signal pat > Width of what signal? GPS? > > > > > > > > No-one seems to know about the width of my signal, what do you think I should > > do next? It's really urgent, this project is several months over due. > > > > pat > > > > > As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the > > > experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see > > > responses later today when people on the list start getting home from work. > > > > > > Cheers - Greg > > > > > > > From n7hpr@tapr.org Sun Jan 17 09:52:25 1999 Received: from osage.gate.net (root@osage.gate.net [198.206.134.25]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03518 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:52:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar (tskng2-1.gate.net [207.36.2.128]) by osage.gate.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA79254 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990117105339.00912430@pop.gate.net> X-Sender: srbible@pop.gate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:53:39 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Expanding 1PPS signal width In-Reply-To: <199901171521.PAA19480@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> References: <199901171500.JAA04696@access.usa-site.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:26 AM 1/17/99 -0600, you wrote: >No, BNC 5v 1PPS 20 usec wide. That's what I wanted the TAC-2 for to convert >the rising-edge signal to an RS232 input. But I didn't realise the TAC-2 was >expecting a rising-edge signal between 100 msec and 200 msec leading me to >fear that building the kit may serve no purpose if it can't detect my tiny >signal >pat Pat, look on page 2 of 5 of the TAC-2 schematics. There you will see an optional 555 timer that can be installed and configured as a one-shot. The Trimble SK8 GPS receiver also has a very short pulse width and this circutry was put on the TAC-2 for that purpose. There is a discrption of the circuitry on page 15 of the assembly manual. - Steve (n7hpr@tapr.org) (n7hpr@amsat.org) From pgm@ns0.help-desk.co.uk Sun Jan 17 10:03:07 1999 Received: from ns0.help-desk.co.uk (ns0.help-desk.co.uk [212.240.170.18]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04183 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:03:06 -0600 (CST) Received: (from pgm@localhost) by ns0.help-desk.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19988 for tacgps@tapr.org; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:03:05 GMT (envelope-from pgm) From: User PgmPatrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901171603.QAA19988@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2023] Expanding 1PPS signal width In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990117105339.00912430@pop.gate.net> from "Steven R. Bible" at "Jan 17, 99 09:54:44 am" To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:03:05 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right o' Thanks a million everyone pat > At 09:26 AM 1/17/99 -0600, you wrote: > >No, BNC 5v 1PPS 20 usec wide. That's what I wanted the TAC-2 for to convert > >the rising-edge signal to an RS232 input. But I didn't realise the TAC-2 was > >expecting a rising-edge signal between 100 msec and 200 msec leading me to > >fear that building the kit may serve no purpose if it can't detect my tiny > >signal > >pat > > > Pat, look on page 2 of 5 of the TAC-2 schematics. There you will see an > optional 555 timer that can be installed and configured as a one-shot. The > Trimble SK8 GPS receiver also has a very short pulse width and this > circutry was put on the TAC-2 for that purpose. There is a discrption of > the circuitry on page 15 of the assembly manual. > > > - Steve > (n7hpr@tapr.org) > (n7hpr@amsat.org) > > From ebs@lanl.gov Sun Jan 17 10:17:02 1999 Received: from lawyer.lanl.gov (root@lawyer.lanl.gov [128.165.205.222]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAB04674 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:17:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from [128.165.7.82] (transitory150.lanl.gov [128.165.7.82]) by lawyer.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28959 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:16:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901171616.JAA28959@lawyer.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2021] Re: What TAPR Directory? Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:20:31 -0700 x-sender: ebs@biophysics.lanl.gov x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Brooks Shera To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The drawing I have of the TAC-2 board shows space for a 7555 pulse stretcher (U5) that appearently was included to solve problems like yours. Brooks >No, BNC 5v 1PPS 20 usec wide. That's what I wanted the TAC-2 for to convert >the rising-edge signal to an RS232 input. But I didn't realise the TAC-2 was >expecting a rising-edge signal between 100 msec and 200 msec leading me to >fear that building the kit may serve no purpose if it can't detect my tiny >signal >pat > > >> Width of what signal? GPS? >> >> >> >> >> > >> > No-one seems to know about the width of my signal, what do you think I >should >> > do next? It's really urgent, this project is several months over due. >> > >> > pat >> > >> > > As to the width of the signal issue, I'll have to defer to one of the >> > > experts on the list that know these things. You will probably see >> > > responses later today when people on the list start getting home from >work. >> > > >> > > Cheers - Greg >> > > >> > >> >> From eac@shore.net Sun Jan 17 21:02:41 1999 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14044 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:02:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from netlynn-s01-92.port.shore.net (shore.net) [207.244.109.92] by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) for tacgps@tapr.org id 1024xW-0007KH-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:02:34 -0500 Message-ID: <36A2A40F.5DBDC611@shore.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:01:35 -0500 From: "Eric A. Cottrell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2023] Expanding 1PPS signal width References: <3.0.6.32.19990117105339.00912430@pop.gate.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven R. Bible wrote: > Pat, look on page 2 of 5 of the TAC-2 schematics. There you will see an > optional 555 timer that can be installed and configured as a one-shot. The Hello, Make sure you get one of the new Y2K compliant 555 timer chips 8->. 73 Eric eac@shore.net WB1HBU From n7hpr@tapr.org Sun Jan 17 21:33:18 1999 Received: from chickasaw.gate.net (root@chickasaw.gate.net [198.206.134.26]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15580 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:33:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar (tskng1-10.gate.net [207.36.2.10]) by chickasaw.gate.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA71250 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:32:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990117223429.009f99c0@pop.gate.net> X-Sender: srbible@pop.gate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:34:29 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2026] Re: Expanding 1PPS signal width In-Reply-To: <36A2A40F.5DBDC611@shore.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:05 PM 1/17/99 -0600, you wrote: >Steven R. Bible wrote: >> Pat, look on page 2 of 5 of the TAC-2 schematics. There you will see an >> optional 555 timer that can be installed and configured as a one-shot. The > >Hello, > >Make sure you get one of the new Y2K compliant 555 timer chips 8->. Eric, you've obviously have Y2K on the brain! :-O - Steve (n7hpr@tapr.org) (n7hpr@amsat.org) From eac@shore.net Sun Jan 17 22:17:54 1999 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17893 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:17:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from netlynn-s01-92.port.shore.net (shore.net) [207.244.109.92] by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) for tacgps@tapr.org id 10268N-0003H1-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:17:52 -0500 Message-ID: <36A2B5B4.A865EC72@shore.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:16:52 -0500 From: "Eric A. Cottrell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2027] Re: Expanding 1PPS signal width References: <3.0.6.32.19990117223429.009f99c0@pop.gate.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven R. Bible wrote: > Eric, you've obviously have Y2K on the brain! :-O Hello, I am just passing on what I heard from an "expert" 8->. I am considering going into business selling corrected 555 and 556 timer chips. 73 Eric eac@shore.net WB1HBU From ssampson@usa-site.net Sun Jan 17 22:31:01 1999 Received: from access.usa-site.net (access.usa-site.net [209.140.34.130]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18470 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:31:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from dodge (dodge.usa-site.net [209.140.34.135]) by access.usa-site.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08465 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:31:07 -0600 Message-ID: <001701be429b$300ee840$87228cd1@dodge.usa-site.net> From: "Steve Sampson" To: Subject: IRS Virus Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:29:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 WARNING! PLEASE READ IMMEDIATELY! THIS IS SERIOUS! If you get an envelope from a company called the Internal Revenue Service," DO NOT OPEN IT! This group operates a scam around this time every year. Their letter claims that you owe them money, which they will take and use to pay for the operation of essential functions of the United States government. This is untrue! The money the IRS collects is used to fund various other corporations which depend on subsidies to stay in business. This organization has ties to another shady outfit called the Social Security Administration, who claim to take money from your regular paychecks and save it for your retirement. In truth, the SSA uses the money to pay for the same misguided corporate welfare the IRS helps mastermind. These scam artists have bilked honest, hard working Americans out of billions of dollars (over 5000 Billion). Don't be among them! DISCLAIMER: If you are the IRS, I only forwarded this message as I received it. From pgm@ns0.help-desk.co.uk Mon Jan 18 06:11:04 1999 Received: from ns0.help-desk.co.uk (ns0.help-desk.co.uk [212.240.170.18]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11957 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:11:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from pgm@localhost) by ns0.help-desk.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03264 for tacgps@tapr.org; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:11:02 GMT (envelope-from pgm) From: User PgmPatrick MacKeown Message-Id: <199901181211.MAA03264@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Subject: Why am I giving MAX232 ten volts? To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:11:02 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks? Why is page 10 of the TAC-2 assembly manual asking me to check the MAX232 at ten volts to check my PPS signal level, when my PPS signal level is 5 volts? pat From lylej@azstarnet.com Mon Jan 18 08:04:28 1999 Received: from pegasus.azstarnet.com (pegasus.azstarnet.com [169.197.56.194]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24447 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:04:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from tomswift (dialup15ip077.tus.azstarnet.com [169.197.37.77]) by pegasus.azstarnet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA25119 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:04:13 -0700 (MST) X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990118070143.00930b80@pop.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: lylej@pop.azstarnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:01:43 -0700 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: Lyle Johnson Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2030] Why am I giving MAX232 ten volts? In-Reply-To: <199901181211.MAA03264@ns0.help-desk.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:15 AM 1/18/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hi folks? > >Why is page 10 of the TAC-2 assembly manual asking me to check >the MAX232 at ten volts to check my PPS signal level, when my >PPS signal level is 5 volts? > >pat > The MAX232 includes a TTL to RS232 level converter. It takes 0/+5V levels and converts them to approximately +10/-10V respectively. On receive, it takes RS232 levels (such as +10V/-10V) and converts them back to TTL (0/+5V). Many GPS receiver modules interface at TTL levels; the MAX232 is there to interface such units properly to a standard async serial port found on a typical computer. The 1PPS signal needs to be converted to an RS232-compatible level (and stretched if necessary to a suitable width) to be detected by the software running in the PC (TAC32 or Showtime or ???) for whatever purpose the software wants regarding this signal. Lyle From tac@clark.net Mon Jan 18 13:58:24 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA11738 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:58:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from tac.clark.net by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:58:18 -0500 Message-Id: <36A39216.EC55D6B3@clark.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:57:11 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: tac@clark.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2018] UT vs. VP Oncore. References: <36A1BF25.56F1A673@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darryl Smith wrote: > > G'Day > > I purchased 2 Oncore's mail order, for use on APRS. Unfortunately when I > got them they turned out to be the UT version which does not have NMEA. > They do have a far more accurate 1pps and actually have a 100 pps > output. A small correction -- the UT is NOT more accurate than the VP Oncore. The UT is basically a subset of the VP with a stripped-down command set consisting of the timing functions. The UT offers a few features that the VP does not, like the 100 PPS option, the ability to do a "zero-D" self-survey and a command that reports the current GPS minus UTC offset explicitly. The UT & VP both offer higher accuracy timing than the othert stripped-down oncore, the GT, which is designed to be built into systems like automobiles. 73, Tom From tac@clark.net Mon Jan 18 14:32:10 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13381 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:32:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from tac.clark.net by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:31:55 -0500 Message-Id: <36A399F4.4501B6A2@clark.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:30:44 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: tac@clark.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick MacKeown , tacgps@tapr.org Subject: TAC-2 Pulse Stretcher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick -- Rick Hambly & Lyle Johnson answered the main points you asked concerning pulse widths. The reason I included the U5 = CMOS 555 one-shot was to solve problems like the one you seem to have. It sounds like the receiver you are trying to interface has a pulse similar to that from a Trimble SK-8 receiver. The reason I specified a long 1PPS signal (100 msec with some Garmins, 200 msec from the Oncores) was to insure that the RS232 (DCD pin) 1PPS signal would not be lost. Depending on the software being useed to fetch the DCD 1PPS signal (either interrupt driven or polled), a 10 microsecond pulse might easily be missed. The specific width is not too critical, but I'd recommend that it be at least 10 msec. On the TAC-2 schematics you will find that the width of the pulse is about Twidth = 1.5 * R9 * C4. For R9=1meg and C4=100 nf you should get about 150 msec. You will have to change/install some jumpers at the 8-pin header JP4. You will find that pins 1+3+5+7 have circuit board jumper traces, as have pins 6+8. It appears from your description that your receiver, like the SK-8, has a positive-going 1PPS puls, so you will have to use the U4A inverter. Cut the PCB jumpers between 1+3 and between 6+8. Add a jumper between 4&8 (to send an inverted version of the pulse into U5) and between 1&2 (to sent the U5 signal into the distribution buffers). That SHOULD do it. In the event that your receiver's 1PPS output is open collector and needs a pull-up to make its pulse, you can put a 10k resistor in R3 (this was the case witb the original Trimble SV-6 receivers). The 7555 triggers on the negative-going edge of its input (which is why I had you enable the U4A inverter, assuming you have a positive-going 1PPS signal). In the event that U4A doesn't properly trigger U5, you might want to enable the input pulse shortener by installing C3 and cutting the PCB jumper across its pins. Hopefully Lyle's reply explained reason that the MAX232 makes +10v & -10v with its small internal switching power supply -- they are needed to make the "legal" RS232 signals. 73 & good luck with this adventure -- Tom From g13216@email1.wes.mot.com Tue Jan 19 07:46:38 1999 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20409 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id HAA19610 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:37 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender g13216@email1.wes.mot.com ) Received: from email1.wes.mot.com (email1.wes.mot.com [192.93.6.3]) by pobox.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id HAA08438 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:36 -0600 (CST) Received: by email1.wes.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:35 -0600 Message-ID: <51F347B016ADD011963200805FC145620340E381@email1.wes.mot.com> From: Mastenbrook Gary-G13216 To: "'tacgps@tapr.org'" Subject: RE: [TACGPS:2032] Re: UT vs. VP Oncore. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tom- Thanks for the frequent and helpful posts to this net! Thought I'd respond to the "stripped-down" comment ;-) and also pass along that the Motorola OnCore UT+ and the OnCore GT+ both have the same hardware platform and are only different because of the different firmware loaded into them. (I believe that the positioning algorithm is exactly the same for both models. The UT+ has a code build which includes the precise timing functions and deletes the NMEA functions, while the GT+ includes the NMEA functionality and deletes the precise timing functions--but retains a "basic" 1pps output pulse.) Both the UT+ and the GT+ have new (and tighter) filtering on the RF section which helps in the typical timing application as well as the very messy automotive environment. I'm told that the filtering is better than that on the VP. I use the UT+ for my TAC-type timing applications and the GT+ for my APRS applications. I hope that Darryl can find some GT's for his APRS application. 73's Gary N8DMT Gary Mastenbrook, Technology Manager, Motorola Telematics 50 E. Commerce Drive, Schaumburg, IL 60173 Email: g13216@email.mot.com Work Home Page: http://www.mot.com Personal Home Page: http://www.qsl.net/n8dmt -----Original Message----- From: Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI) [mailto:tac@clark.net] Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 2:02 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:2032] Re: UT vs. VP Oncore. Darryl Smith wrote: > > G'Day > > I purchased 2 Oncore's mail order, for use on APRS. Unfortunately when I > got them they turned out to be the UT version which does not have NMEA. > They do have a far more accurate 1pps and actually have a 100 pps > output. A small correction -- the UT is NOT more accurate than the VP Oncore. The UT is basically a subset of the VP with a stripped-down command set consisting of the timing functions. The UT offers a few features that the VP does not, like the 100 PPS option, the ability to do a "zero-D" self-survey and a command that reports the current GPS minus UTC offset explicitly. The UT & VP both offer higher accuracy timing than the othert stripped-down oncore, the GT, which is designed to be built into systems like automobiles. 73, Tom From clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Jan 19 12:31:01 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA03839 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:31:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from scheat.gsfc.nasa.gov by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:31:00 -0500 Message-Id: <36A4CF64.63B1EE76@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:31:00 -0500 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: Re: UT vs. VP Oncore. References: <51F347B016ADD011963200805FC145620340E381@email1.wes.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary Mastenbrook wrote: > > Tom- Thanks for the frequent and helpful posts to this net! Thought I'd > respond to the "stripped-down" comment ;-) and also pass along that the > Motorola OnCore UT+ and the OnCore GT+ both have the same hardware platform > and are only different because of the different firmware loaded into them. > (I believe that the positioning algorithm is exactly the same for both > models. The UT+ has a code build which includes the precise timing functions > and deletes the NMEA functions, while the GT+ includes the NMEA > functionality and deletes the precise timing functions--but retains a > "basic" 1pps output pulse.) My comment was directed mainly to the VP vs. UT+ differences. The VP is a different hardware engine, differing mainly in having more ROM/RAM onboard. > Both the UT+ and the GT+ have new (and tighter) filtering on the RF section > which helps in the typical timing application as well as the very messy > automotive environment. I'm told that the filtering is better than that on > the VP. I believe the UT+'s "improved filtering" was dictated by the fact that UT+ was really intended for use at cellular telephone sites, where heavy RFI can be a serious problem. Some of the RFI filtering enhancements have, I understand, been included in the newest batch of VPs (those with 10.0 firmware, produced in the past year. Some details of the VP/UT+/GT+ differences can be seen in http://www.synergy-gps.com/TN-490.pdf Also, Rick's (WB2TNL) latest TAC32 software automatically recognizes and supports both VP & UT+ (and I don't know about the GT+). I don't know much about the GT+ (or its new sub-miniature clone), having never tried them. I can comment that I have never had any RFI problems with the VP (or even its earlier predecessor, the PVT-6=ONCORE BASIC) even with HF/2M/70cm/23cm radios running nearby. One other item to note -- the VP is the only model that can supply DGPS corrections in Mot's proprietary format. Of course, it is this message that is converted into RTCM SC-104 Type-1 DGPS messages in Steve's (N7HPR) TAPR DGPS widget. Personally, because it has the maximum flexibility and because it has been a faithful "old friend", I use the VP in all my activities. 73, Tom From tac@clark.net Tue Jan 19 22:34:36 1999 Received: from leo.gsfc.nasa.gov (leo.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.201.64]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA11719 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:34:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from tac.clark.net by leo.gsfc.nasa.gov; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:34:33 -0500 Message-Id: <36A55C91.460B8386@clark.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:33:21 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: tac@clark.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: TACGPS Subject: Interesting widget Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Purely by chance (actually steered by a Nuts 'n Volts classified ad) I just stumbled on an interesting widget -- an integrated GPS/Inmarsat-C "pod"containing a 20 watt L-band PA + Inmarsat antenna + Inmarsat receive LNA + GPS antenna & LNA. Cost is $67 with shipping. Check out this URL: http://afstar.com/pod.html If anybody has any knowledge about this toy over and above what's on the web page, let us know (like -- will the L-band PA operate at 1296 MHz)? 73, Tom From W4OQM@aol.com Sun Jan 24 14:20:23 1999 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13977 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:20:22 -0600 (CST) From: W4OQM@aol.com Received: from W4OQM@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8WWa003537 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:18:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6d03db22.36ab802b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:18:51 EST To: tacgps@tapr.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Book Recommendation? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 I've been looking for a good _reference_ book on GPS. The books I've seen in the large chain bookstores don't have the technical detail I want. The Artech House catalog lists the following book: Understanding GPS: Principles and Applications Elliott Kaplan, Editor, MITRE Corporation, 554 pp., 1996, ISBN: 0-89006-793-7 Has anyone on the list seen this book? Is it worth $105? Thanks, Charlie -- W4OQM c.wells@ieee.org From srbible@gate.net Sun Jan 24 14:53:56 1999 Received: from osage.gate.net (root@osage.gate.net [198.206.134.25]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15128 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:53:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar (tskng3-15.gate.net [207.36.2.206]) by osage.gate.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAB87198 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:53:40 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990124155522.0094dab0@pop.gate.net> X-Sender: srbible@pop.gate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:55:22 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2037] Book Recommendation? In-Reply-To: <6d03db22.36ab802b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:21 PM 1/24/99 -0600, you wrote: >I've been looking for a good _reference_ book on GPS. The books I've seen in >the large chain bookstores don't have the technical detail I want. The Artech >House catalog lists the following book: > >Understanding GPS: Principles and Applications >Elliott Kaplan, Editor, MITRE Corporation, >554 pp., 1996, >ISBN: 0-89006-793-7 > >Has anyone on the list seen this book? Is it worth $105? Charlie, I am not familar with this book. But I thought I'd pass along this suggestion... Take a look at the books sold by Navtech (http://www.navtechgps.com/). You'll also notice that Navtech has GPS seminars. Take a look at these seminars and notice the curriculum and the references used in the seminar. Between reading about the curriculum and references, I think you'll find the book you are looking for. I've purchased books from Navtech such as the Red Books, which I can recommend. But there are very technical. Standard disclaimers apply. I am only a satisfied customer that doesn't have enough money to buy all the things I want from Navtech :-). - Steve (n7hpr@tapr.org) (n7hpr@amsat.org) From j.m.franke@larc.nasa.gov Sun Jan 24 15:41:30 1999 Received: from post.larc.nasa.gov (post.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.4.45]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17080 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:41:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from [128.155.59.12] (franke.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.59.12]) by post.larc.nasa.gov (8.8.6.1/pohub4.2A) with ESMTP id QAA14115; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:41:24 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: j.m.franke@express.larc.nasa.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6d03db22.36ab802b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:41:30 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: John Franke Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2037] Book Recommendation? Cc: c.wells@ieee.org >I've been looking for a good _reference_ book on GPS. The books I've seen in >the large chain bookstores don't have the technical detail I want. The Artech >House catalog lists the following book: > >Understanding GPS: Principles and Applications >Elliott Kaplan, Editor, MITRE Corporation, >554 pp., 1996, >ISBN: 0-89006-793-7 > >Has anyone on the list seen this book? Is it worth $105? > >Thanks, >Charlie -- W4OQM > >c.wells@ieee.org I have that book, it is very technical, but in my opinion worth the cost. Other recognized references are: The Red Books (Institute of Navigation), five volumes: http://www.ion.org/redbookstoc.html 5 Volume Set (5 lb.): $120, volumes are available separately. The Blue books: Global Positioning System: Theory and Applications, edited by Bradford W. Parkinson and James J. Spilker. http://www.navtechgps.com/supply/books.asp?Line=basic 2 volume set $180, volumes are available separately. Hope this helps, John John M. Franke Senior Technologist NASA Langley Research Center Technology Applications Group 3 Langley Blvd, MS200 Hampton, VA 23681-2199 Voice: 757 864 4623 Fax: 757 864 8314 E-mail: j.m.franke@larc.nasa.gov From ssampson@usa-site.net Sun Jan 24 17:56:27 1999 Received: from access.usa-site.net (access.usa-site.net [209.140.34.130]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23557 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:56:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from dodge (dodge.usa-site.net [209.140.34.135]) by access.usa-site.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA22749 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:56:30 -0600 Message-ID: <000401be47f4$f6e2bec0$87228cd1@dodge.usa-site.net> From: "Steve Sampson" To: Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2037] Book Recommendation? Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:55:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 I doubt it. That is a library type book, and the price is double in that business. I'd write the author and have him sell you one direct, or have your library buy it. They can probably get one on loan as well. The $105 price means he expects to sell about 100 of them, and is probably academic in nature. I have a bunch of old Artech House books on radar, and they are basically crap, except for one. Luckily I got them for free when Westinghouse went out of business. -----Original Message----- From: W4OQM@aol.com To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Sunday, January 24, 1999 2:41 PM Subject: [TACGPS:2037] Book Recommendation? >I've been looking for a good _reference_ book on GPS. The books I've seen in >the large chain bookstores don't have the technical detail I want. The Artech >House catalog lists the following book: > >Understanding GPS: Principles and Applications >Elliott Kaplan, Editor, MITRE Corporation, >554 pp., 1996, >ISBN: 0-89006-793-7 > >Has anyone on the list seen this book? Is it worth $105? From srbible@gate.net Sun Jan 24 18:23:37 1999 Received: from osage.gate.net (root@osage.gate.net [198.206.134.25]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25773 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:23:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar (tskng1-14.gate.net [207.36.2.14]) by osage.gate.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA52216 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:23:22 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990124192502.009bdb70@pop.gate.net> X-Sender: srbible@pop.gate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:25:02 -0500 To: tacgps@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2037] Book Recommendation? In-Reply-To: <6d03db22.36ab802b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:21 PM 1/24/99 -0600, you wrote: >I've been looking for a good _reference_ book on GPS. The books I've seen in >the large chain bookstores don't have the technical detail I want. The Artech >House catalog lists the following book: > >Understanding GPS: Principles and Applications >Elliott Kaplan, Editor, MITRE Corporation, >554 pp., 1996, >ISBN: 0-89006-793-7 > >Has anyone on the list seen this book? Is it worth $105? Bookpool (http://www.bookpool.com) has it for $84.00. However, they list it as out of stock. Computer Literacy (http://www.computerliteracy.com) has it for $105.00 and it's in stock. - Steve (n7hpr@tapr.org) (n7hpr@amsat.org) From W4OQM@aol.com Sun Jan 24 19:14:33 1999 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07206 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:14:32 -0600 (CST) From: W4OQM@aol.com Received: from W4OQM@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HDNCa03211 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:08:37 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <71502dbb.36abc415@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:08:37 EST To: tacgps@tapr.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [TACGPS:2040] Re: Book Recommendation? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 I don't have a problem with academic but I do have a problem with crummy books. I've had my company buy a few Artech House books in the past and my opinions of those books have been mixed. I have to pay for this one myself, which is why I asked. Thanks to everyone for the input. Charlie -- W4OQM c.wells@ieee.org From bounce-message-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 01:54:50 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA02261 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:54:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Lyris-Type: get-doc From: Lyris Reply-To: Lyris To: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org Subject: TAC-2 and Technical GPS Discussions Welcome Message Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:54:54 -0600 ******************************************************************** * PLEASE SAVE THIS WELCOME MESSAGE! * ******************************************************************** ________________________________________ ________/ ____/ _/_____/ _/_____/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/____/_/ _/_____/ _/_____/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _______________________________________ Welcome to the TAPR tacgps Mail List The purpose of the tacgps list is to provide a forum for folks interested in discussing TAC-2 and GPS related technical issues. 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Sending mail to this address will distribute it to all the members of the mailing list: tacgps@lists.tapr.org 3. CHANGING YOUR SETTINGS/ADDRESS VIA THE WEB INTERFACE: To do this, go to and click the link in the "Change Your Settings" section. You'll need to enter your e-mail address and password (if you chose one) to continue. (If you've forgotten your password, you can type in your e-mail address in the field at the bottom of the page and click "Get password" to request Lyris to e-mail your password to you.) At the following page, you can read messages, post a message, adjust your settings, or unsubscribe. From the settings page, you can change your status (MAIL, DIGEST, INDEX, or NOMAIL), choose whether or not to see your own messages, and choose whether or not you want to receive a separate acknowledgement via e-mail when one of your messages is posted to the list, You can also change your e-mail address if you need to. When you change your settings, make sure you click the "Save" button at the bottom of the page. 4. ARCHIVES: The tacgps SIG archives are available on the Web, at the following URL: 5. BOUNCED MAIL: One of the key features of Lyris is its ability to handle mail bounces transparently to the list owner; as such, bounced mail will be handled primarily by the Lyris list server. 6. POSTS/REPLIES FROM DIGEST USERS: You *must* change the Subject: line when replying to a digest; all posts with "tacgps DIGEST" in the Subject: line will be rejected by the server (you will receive a "rejection letter" when this happens). From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 05:15:45 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA07546 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:15:44 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:05:39 -0600 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [tacgps] TAPR Server Upgrade List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello TAPR Archiver, you might be interested to know that TAPR has upgraded our list processor to a new lyris based system. This message is going to you on the tacgps list. You are listed as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org on the list This new package has a lot of features which might cause a few glitches as we make the transition. Read the following to find out more. ACCESSING THE SYSTEM VIA THE WEB -------------------------------- When the new TAPR web pages go on-line in the next few weeks, they will contain the new interface to the lists as well as a new and improved search engine for the various mail archives. To directly access the TAPR.ORG Lyris server for now, use http://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/lyris.pl GETTING ON-LINE HELP -------------------- visit: http://www.tapr.org/lyris/help/index.html for a full on-line manual MEMBERS ONLY POST ----------------- With the recent increase in spamming some of the TAPR lists implement the rule "only members of the list can post to said list". If the incoming e-mail address doesn't match your e-mail subscription stored in the list, lists.tapr.org will reject your message. If you get a rejected message from the list server, then you will need to change your address in the list. We have already seen a few rejected posts in the log. We apologize for those caught in the change over. Do the following and repost your message. To change your member e-mail address on this list, do the following: 1. go to http://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=tacgps 2. For "Did you forget your password?" enter lyris.tacgps@tapr.org 3. lists.tapr.org will e-mail you your password for the list. After you get your password use "If you are member..." 4. enter lyris.tacgps@tapr.org for email address 5. enter YOUR_PASSWORD (the one you just got e-mailed) 6. click on the enter button At this point you can edit any of your information for this list. You can also send and receive messages from this screen if you are away from e-mail at the time. We plan on keeping e-mail for 30 days on the Lyris interface, after which time messages can be found in the html searchable archives. To get more information on your options see: http://www.tapr.org/lyris/help/ChangeMembershipSettings.html LOTS OF INFORMATION IN EACH MESSAGE ----------------------------------- No member of a list should now have an excuse for not knowing how to unsubscribe from the list. Each message contains information on how to subscribe as well as unsubscribe. To unsubscribe, just send to the unique address shown in your message. HOLD ON BOUNCED E-MAIL ---------------------- When people's email addresses go bad (for instance, they change to another Internet Service Provider) each email message sent to their old address bounces back to lists.tapr.org. In the past, this was a huge management issue for myself and a few other on the tapr list server. Lyris will now analyze the bounces and determine who is causing them. If a member's email address appears to be invalid for 5 days in a row, Lyris automatically disables that participant's membership on the system, so that lists.tapr.org no longer sends them mail. When a user is placed on hold, we will send the user an email message indicating that this has occurred, as well as a copy of the most recent error message received. This notification message, if the user receives it, can be very helpful to the user in determining why their email was being rejected by their mail system. In such a case, send the "unhold" command to the List Server address, and Lyris will return any "held" subscriptions back to "normal." The format of the unhold command is: email to: lyris@lists.tapr.org subject: unhold 500K Message Limit on most open lists ------------------------------------- We have implemented a 500K message size limit on the open lists. This should catch most of the huge posts that get made. If this limit needs to be changed, the list manager can change the setting for that list. MESSAGE FILTER -------------- Lyris looks for a lot of things in the message that might indicate something not meant to be sent to the list. Like the word TEST or UNSUBSCRIBE in the Subject line. If you send a message to the list server that it thinks is a 'suspect' message and it isn't, just change the word or line and please resubmit. While this might cause a problem now and then for the average user, it saves a lot of posting of messages that shouldn't be making it to the list. CONCLUSION ---------- Moving to a new list package has been on our upgrade to do list for some time. Thanks to member support, TAPR has been able to make this upgrade a reality. We feel that this new package will greatly help expand our capabilities while also reducing the amount of work that it took to keep the previous list package running correctly. I am in the midst of developing a new web site along with several other new items that should make using and getting information from the TAPR.ORG site much easier. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to drop me an e-mail message. To those members of TAPR on this list, please give yourself a big pat on the back of supporting TAPR! For those of you that haven't joined TAPR yet, consider this a friendly reminder that you should think about joining in order to support future maintenance of things we do on the Internet and the various technical projects that are always ongoing. TAPR is only as strong as its membership. Cheers -- Greg Jones, WD5IVD President, TAPR ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 10:10:12 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA26077 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:10:12 -0600 (CST) From: Dan_Hinz@amat.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:03:39 -0800 Subject: [tacgps] Interesting Widget Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <88256704.0058577B.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I wrote an e-mail requesting additional information on these. Unfortunately, they have no schematics for them. dan, W6LSN ---------------------- Forwarded by Dan Hinz/APPLIED MATERIALS on 01/25/99 08:04 AM --------------------------- "JOE NOVAK" on 01/23/99 05:11:46 AM Please respond to "JOE NOVAK" To: Dan Hinz/APPLIED MATERIALS cc: Subject: Re: POD antennas @http://afstar.com/pod.html Thanks for your inquiry, Dan. We received the pods in a trade. They were originally sold to the trucking industry by the American Mobile Satellite Corp (AMSC) for communications via Inmarsat. When AMSC switched to their own satellite, the trucking systems became incompatible. This was a big surprised to AMSC who had to repurchase all the radios. The pods still work just find on Inmarsat. We have a Inmarsat Standard C system here and can easily log onto the system using the pods as antennas. We do not have schematics for the PODS. If you wish to use the power amps on 1200MHZ or 900MHZ you will have to by-pass the strip line filters now on 1620 - 1650 MHZ. Not a big operation. The receive filters are 1520 - 1580 MHZ. Drive power is 0 dbm. Connectors- Five pin control connectors - we still have a few around here and the RF connector is a Type N. 24 volts DC goes up the coax. Hope this helps, Joe Novak -----Original Message----- From: Dan_Hinz@amat.com To: beacon@prodigy.net Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:13 AM Subject: POD antennas @http://afstar.com/pod.html > >To whom it may concern: > >I recently came across your L-band pod at the above listed URL. >Do you have any more information about them? Some question off the top of >my head: > >What drive level is required to achieve 20 watts out >What is the power output at 1296MHz, 900MHz? > - If unavailable, is a schematic available? >Size of the pod? (w & w/o radome) >What type of connectors for RF/DC? >power/isolation/frequency response of the diplexers? > >Thanks, >Dan, W6LSN > >dan.hinz@ieee.org >dan_hinz@amat.com > > > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 10:18:57 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA26505 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:18:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Doug McKinney" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: [TACGPS:2036] Interesting widget Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:03:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000d01be487c$428f8880$c1c6cccf@buoy.mcktech.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI) To: tacgps@tapr.org Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: [TACGPS:2036] Interesting widget >Purely by chance (actually steered by a Nuts 'n Volts classified ad) >I just stumbled on an interesting widget -- an integrated GPS/Inmarsat-C >"pod"containing a 20 watt L-band PA + Inmarsat antenna + Inmarsat receive >LNA + GPS antenna & LNA. Cost is $67 with shipping. Check out this URL: > http://afstar.com/pod.html > >If anybody has any knowledge about this toy over and above what's on the >web page, let us know (like -- will the L-band PA operate at 1296 MHz)? > >73, Tom > Well, I couldn't resist and ordered 4. So I'll pass along what I find out! 73's Doug --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jan 26 16:54:53 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06639 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:54:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:54:05 -0500 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] White House Announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <36AE478D.9E03B6EA@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At long last, the official announcement on the policy for civilian (i.e. C/A Code) access to L2 and the plans for the new L3 frequency has been made yesterday -- Tom -------------------------------------------------------- THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Vice President For Immediate Release Contact: Monday, January 25, 1999 (202) 456-7035 VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANNOUNCES NEW GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM MODERNIZATION INITIATIVE Initiative Would Make Global Positioning System More Accessible to Civilian Users Washington, DC -- Vice President Gore announced today a $400 million new initiative in the President's balanced budget that will modernize the Global Positioning System (GPS) and will add two new civil signals to future GPS satellites, significantly enhancing the service provided to civil, commercial, and scientific users worldwide. "The United States is proud to be a leader in the development of the Global Positioning System -- a wonderful example of how technology is benefiting our citizens and people around the world," Vice President Gore said. "This initiative represents a major milestone in the evolution of GPS as a global information utility, and will help us realize the full benefits of this technology in the next millennium." This initiative is only the most recent step in an ongoing public-private effort to make GPS more responsive to the needs of civilian users worldwide. National and regional GPS-based networks are now being created by governments and industry around the world to help guide everything from planes, trains, ships, and cars to tractors, snowplows, earthmovers, and mining equipment. As announced by Vice President Gore last March, the second civil signal will be located at 1227.60 MHZ along with the current military signal, and will be available for general use in non-safety-critical applications. The President's Budget supports implementing this new signal on the satellites scheduled for launch beginning in 2003. Key to the overall modernization initiative was a recent White House decision on the frequency for a third civil signal that can meet the needs of critical safety-of-life applications such as civil aviation. The third civil signal will be located at 1176.45 MHZ, within a portion of the spectrum that is allocated internationally for aeronautical radio navigation services, and will be implemented beginning with a satellite scheduled for launch in 2005. This initiative will cost $400 million over six years. The date that new services will be available to users will depend on the actual launch dates, orbiting sufficient numbers of satellites to provide useful services, and maintaining operational capabilities. When combined with the current civil signal at 1575.42 MHZ, the new signals will significantly improve the robustness and reliability of GPS for civil users, and will enable unprecedented real-time determination of highly accurate position location anywhere on Earth. This new capability will spur new applications for GPS, further expanding the rapidly growing market for GPS equipment and services worldwide. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Jan 26 17:11:36 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07463 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:11:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:11:00 -0500 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] White House announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <36AE4B84.DBAD5FED@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The material I just posted is also available on the web at http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/FGCS/GIAC/giac.html This site also has a PDF version of the Jan.15 definitive memo on White House stationery. Click on the first two items on the FGCS/GIAC web page. 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 22:39:48 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA14816 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:39:48 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Jon" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Motorola ONCORE VP - Antenna Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:37:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: tacgps@lists.tapr.org List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <002b01be4a77$fc21f4c0$0200a8c0@Jon-A.wingate> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I have a problem.. I bought an Oncore VP a little over 2 years ago with the I/O & P/S board, a TAC2, and a MIC-E... I chose to keep the GPS outboard so that I can share it among the different boxes. I just now am getting around getting the GPS up and running, the TAC2 is 90% complete and mic-e is finished and tested. I have a Garmin GPS-45 with an active external antenna GA-26. Reading the specs (and metering the 5VDC at the antenna connectors) it seems that the Garmin antenna should work. There is very little Technical data available for the Garmin stuff and none for the antenna that I can find. It may work... however, when I power up the Oncore and communicate with it... with the Garmin antenna installed... the self test comes back fine. However, there is no satellite data received even after an hour our so... Will this antenna work? Can it be made to work? What is the best solution that is reasonably priced? Do any of you have any ideas and/or solutions to my problem? 73 de Jon K1IMD NNNN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 00:06:35 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06418 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:06:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:03:13 -0800 From: Dan Hinz MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] GPS performance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B14F21.7910318A@ieee.org> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Problem: GPS position varies tremendously for a fixed location. I thought that my position would only fluctuate a couple of hundred meters max, and typically be within 100 meters. Could I have a bad GPS unit? (it is telling TAC32 it is ok) I have attached a sample of data taken a couple of days ago. I believe the first and last pieces of data are "good." This wander happens every two to three days. I am using a Garmin GPS-25 to run Tac32 through a TAC-2 interface. I am logging data from the Garmin every 60 seconds. I have what I feel to be a good reference position in the program. I have the program in precision timing mode, which in the case of the Garmin puts it in a 2-D mode, it locks the altitude. 990128: UTC LAT Long SAT hdop alt 1517 37.233075 N 121.893193333333 W 7 1.2 84.2 1518 37.3513233333333 N 121.906961666667 W 8 1.2 84.2 1519 37.45789 N 121.920088333333 W 8 1.2 84.0 1520 37.2331016666667 N 121.893251666667 W 8 1.2 83.8 1521 37.5850133333333 N 121.937515 W 8 1.0 83.6 1522 37.7553283333333 N 121.960875 W 8 1.1 84.2 1523 37.8648483333333 N 121.977331666667 W 8 1.0 83.3 1524 37.871095 N 121.964225 W 8 1.0 83.1 1525 37.2332416666667 N 121.89341 W 7 1.1 84.2 Thanks for any ideas 73, Dan W6LSN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 20:05:13 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11229 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:05:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Kurt Poulsen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Sv: GPS performance Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:57:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE4C04.B4AEFE60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <001801be4bfc$55e586e0$2900a8c0@inet.dk.193.262.153.164> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE4C04.B4AEFE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Dan and others in the group It is quite natural that your position does wander, and the Garmin 25 = are "special terrible" in this respect, at least the units I have bought = two years ago. The GPS signal wanders within the limit 1/1000 of a minute 95% of the = day, and with a speed not higher than 0,5m/s. In the residual 5% of the = day the offset from correct position can be as much as 600 meters in any = direction. I have attached a jpeg file compressed 100 times, (more compression - = and it is unreadable) which are plots made with Garmin 12XL, and Garmin = 25 are pretty identical in this respect. Two of the pictures are continous differential compensated with a high = quality Leica DGPS source, and even then the position wanders = considerable (15 meter), and the third picture are without DGPS = correction, where it the track lenght is 49km "around my house" within 3 = hours. !!! Simular the Globenav/Eagle GPS receiver has only a 500 m track in 8hours = under the same condition, and the DGPS corrected position stays within = the 1/1000 of a minute limit (1.7m north-south and 1 meter east-west at = my position) This GPS receiver uses a Rockwell 12 channel chip. I did contact the manufacturer (GARMIN), which just claimed that the = error was of same magnitude as the position accuracy obtained using = marine DGPS beacon receivers, and thus "blurred".=20 I have recently tested the Garmin 12XL and now the DGPS error using the = Leica Source are within 3-5 meters , so the manufacturer has fixed the major bug. But the Lowrance Products = are still much better, which wanders only 0.3 meter when HDOP are low = (1-1,5). I apologize attaching the JPEG file, to those not so interested in this = topic, but I wanted to share my long lasting experiance with DGPS. I can send those intested, the same datasheet for the Lowrance products = as direct e-mail, as an attachment. General info: The state of the art here in Denmark is, that we provide a public DGPS = source, which is transmitted via 9600bps GSM data and thus obtain an = absolute accuracy within 1 meter within at least a range of 600km from = the reference source (degredation 20ppm per 100km or 0,2 meter per = 100km) We can use the danish reference e.g. in france, just checking the = relevant Lowrance receivers page telling, that all visible sat's are = dgps corrected. I have tried it in belgium myself. The trick is that the delay in GSM is only 0,3sec and the DGPS age thus = 0 sec, meaning almost realtime DGPS correction. The only expences for a = fix in the lanscape are the air time expences (15 cent per minute) and a = fix (waypoint) takes less than a minute. We will shortly upgrade the = system so the time from dialing to DGPS data received are 8 seconds = (ISDN-V110 access)=20 My home page www.lhmobil.dk provide some limited information, (an only = shows the very simple system we provide) but will soon be a "rich = source"of DGPS facts and will show the three other types of intefaces I = have developed whre some are with the datatranceiver build into the box, = as opposed using a pocket phone. I have provided DGPS-GSM interfaces for several years now and the = professional sector now believes in the accuracy. There has been a great = deal of doubts until now. Kind regards Kurt Poulsen -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Dan Hinz Til: TAPR Special Interest Group Dato: fredag, januar 29, 1999 07:06 Emne: [tacgps] GPS performance >Problem: GPS position varies tremendously for a fixed location. I >thought that my position would only fluctuate a couple of hundred = meters >max, and typically be within 100 meters. Could I have a bad GPS unit? >(it is telling TAC32 it is ok) > >I have attached a sample of data taken a couple of days ago. I believe >the first and last pieces of data are "good." This wander happens = every >two to three days. > >I am using a Garmin GPS-25 to run Tac32 through a TAC-2 interface. I = am >logging data from the Garmin every 60 seconds. I have what I feel to = be >a good reference position in the program. >I have the program in precision timing mode, which in the case of the >Garmin puts it in a 2-D mode, it locks the altitude. > > >990128: >UTC LAT >Long SAT hdop alt >1517 37.233075 N 121.893193333333 W 7 >1.2 84.2 >1518 37.3513233333333 N 121.906961666667 W 8 1.2 84.2 >1519 37.45789 N 121.920088333333 W 8 >1.2 84.0 >1520 37.2331016666667 N 121.893251666667 W 8 1.2 83.8 >1521 37.5850133333333 N 121.937515 W 8 1.0 >83.6 >1522 37.7553283333333 N 121.960875 W 8 1.1 >84.2 >1523 37.8648483333333 N 121.977331666667 W 8 1.0 83.3 >1524 37.871095 N 121.964225 W 8 >1.0 83.1 >1525 37.2332416666667 N 121.89341 W 7 >1.1 84.2 > >Thanks for any ideas >73, >Dan >W6LSN > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: LHMOBIL@POST4.TELE.DK >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE4C04.B4AEFE60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="gar12gpe.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19833 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:59:50 -0800 From: Dan Hinz MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] [Fwd: Sv: GPS performance] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------90E7F796B64624880B95ACA7" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B283B6.35F4C81D@ieee.org> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------90E7F796B64624880B95ACA7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kurt - Thanks for the information. You indicated that I one can expect reasonable accuracy 95% of the time and something less out to 600Meters, the other 5%. My problem is that the position was off over 0.6 degrees which is over 36 Nautical Miles! That seems like a hardware problem on my end, not a system problem. Thanks again, Dan W6LSN --------------90E7F796B64624880B95ACA7 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="nsmail46.TMP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmail46.TMP" Return-Path: Received: from ruebert.ieee.org (ruebert.ieee.org [199.172.136.3]) by ixmail7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id SAA10945; for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ieee.org by ruebert.ieee.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00579; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.tapr.org by ieee.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA12361; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:04:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Kurt Poulsen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Sv: GPS performance Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:57:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE4C04.B4AEFE60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <001801be4bfc$55e586e0$2900a8c0@inet.dk.193.262.153.164> Sender: bounce-tacgps-5502@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE4C04.B4AEFE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Dan and others in the group It is quite natural that your position does wander, and the Garmin 25 = are "special terrible" in this respect, at least the units I have bought = two years ago. The GPS signal wanders within the limit 1/1000 of a minute 95% of the = day, and with a speed not higher than 0,5m/s. In the residual 5% of the = day the offset from correct position can be as much as 600 meters in any = direction. I have attached a jpeg file compressed 100 times, (more compression - = and it is unreadable) which are plots made with Garmin 12XL, and Garmin = 25 are pretty identical in this respect. Two of the pictures are continous differential compensated with a high = quality Leica DGPS source, and even then the position wanders = considerable (15 meter), and the third picture are without DGPS = correction, where it the track lenght is 49km "around my house" within 3 = hours. !!! Simular the Globenav/Eagle GPS receiver has only a 500 m track in 8hours = under the same condition, and the DGPS corrected position stays within = the 1/1000 of a minute limit (1.7m north-south and 1 meter east-west at = my position) This GPS receiver uses a Rockwell 12 channel chip. I did contact the manufacturer (GARMIN), which just claimed that the = error was of same magnitude as the position accuracy obtained using = marine DGPS beacon receivers, and thus "blurred".=20 I have recently tested the Garmin 12XL and now the DGPS error using the = Leica Source are within 3-5 meters , so the manufacturer has fixed the major bug. But the Lowrance Products = are still much better, which wanders only 0.3 meter when HDOP are low = (1-1,5). I apologize attaching the JPEG file, to those not so interested in this = topic, but I wanted to share my long lasting experiance with DGPS. I can send those intested, the same datasheet for the Lowrance products = as direct e-mail, as an attachment. General info: The state of the art here in Denmark is, that we provide a public DGPS = source, which is transmitted via 9600bps GSM data and thus obtain an = absolute accuracy within 1 meter within at least a range of 600km from = the reference source (degredation 20ppm per 100km or 0,2 meter per = 100km) We can use the danish reference e.g. in france, just checking the = relevant Lowrance receivers page telling, that all visible sat's are = dgps corrected. I have tried it in belgium myself. The trick is that the delay in GSM is only 0,3sec and the DGPS age thus = 0 sec, meaning almost realtime DGPS correction. The only expences for a = fix in the lanscape are the air time expences (15 cent per minute) and a = fix (waypoint) takes less than a minute. We will shortly upgrade the = system so the time from dialing to DGPS data received are 8 seconds = (ISDN-V110 access)=20 My home page www.lhmobil.dk provide some limited information, (an only = shows the very simple system we provide) but will soon be a "rich = source"of DGPS facts and will show the three other types of intefaces I = have developed whre some are with the datatranceiver build into the box, = as opposed using a pocket phone. I have provided DGPS-GSM interfaces for several years now and the = professional sector now believes in the accuracy. There has been a great = deal of doubts until now. Kind regards Kurt Poulsen -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Dan Hinz Til: TAPR Special Interest Group Dato: fredag, januar 29, 1999 07:06 Emne: [tacgps] GPS performance >Problem: GPS position varies tremendously for a fixed location. I >thought that my position would only fluctuate a couple of hundred = meters >max, and typically be within 100 meters. Could I have a bad GPS unit? >(it is telling TAC32 it is ok) > >I have attached a sample of data taken a couple of days ago. I believe >the first and last pieces of data are "good." This wander happens = every >two to three days. > >I am using a Garmin GPS-25 to run Tac32 through a TAC-2 interface. I = am >logging data from the Garmin every 60 seconds. I have what I feel to = be >a good reference position in the program. >I have the program in precision timing mode, which in the case of the >Garmin puts it in a 2-D mode, it locks the altitude. > > >990128: >UTC LAT >Long SAT hdop alt >1517 37.233075 N 121.893193333333 W 7 >1.2 84.2 >1518 37.3513233333333 N 121.906961666667 W 8 1.2 84.2 >1519 37.45789 N 121.920088333333 W 8 >1.2 84.0 >1520 37.2331016666667 N 121.893251666667 W 8 1.2 83.8 >1521 37.5850133333333 N 121.937515 W 8 1.0 >83.6 >1522 37.7553283333333 N 121.960875 W 8 1.1 >84.2 >1523 37.8648483333333 N 121.977331666667 W 8 1.0 83.3 >1524 37.871095 N 121.964225 W 8 >1.0 83.1 >1525 37.2332416666667 N 121.89341 W 7 >1.1 84.2 > >Thanks for any ideas >73, >Dan >W6LSN > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: LHMOBIL@POST4.TELE.DK >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE4C04.B4AEFE60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="gar12gpe.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 23:43:38 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA25599 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:43:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:42:19 -0700 From: Jeff Vollin MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: [Fwd: Sv: GPS performance] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B29BBB.62971D44@flash.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I have logged literally weeks of position data from Garmin GPS40, GPS12XL, and a Motorola Oncore. I never saw position error data greater than about 500 m max. The data for all the units in the non-differential mode was nearly the same at ~50m at the 2-sigma (95%) level. The data is VERY close to gaussian-distributed so an error of 500m would be like 20 sigma, i.e., this occurs very rarely. Having said all that I did see a couple times where the Garmin 40 "headed for the hills". When the error got to something like 1km, the unit tossed up the error message "Please re-init" and then seemed hung. Powering down and restarting brought things back to normal. I would guess that situation occurs maybe once a month of continuous use, max. I never saw this behavior from either the 12XL or the Oncore. I would say you definitely have a bad unit. Jeff Vollin Dan Hinz wrote: > Kurt - > Thanks for the information. > > You indicated that I one can expect reasonable accuracy 95% of the time > and something less out to 600Meters, the other 5%. My problem is that > the position was off over 0.6 degrees which is over 36 Nautical Miles! > That seems like a hardware problem on my end, not a system problem. > > Thanks again, > Dan > W6LSN > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 00:40:32 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA04540 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:40:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Don Robinson" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] DGPs and post correction. Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:27 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE4C88.3F55BF80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <004901be4c1b$4f2c8be0$283761cb@dons-desktop> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE4C88.3F55BF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have built up a TAPR RTCM unit from the kit and am pleased with the = performance. Thanks TAPR. I am however interested in using another ONCORE (or similar) receiver = and doing post corrections rather than real time. I am aware of Sams = pages on the www but I would be interested in any experience or = assistance anyone in the group can give - or even just some pointers to = information. I guess the ultimate would be a program that takes info = from both the base and rover receiver and processes the info to give = corrected positions. I am not looking for high accuracy (5 - 10 m) would = be useable but more would be a bonus. I notice in summer 98 Packet Status Register the Dr Thomas Clark makes = mention that there is some work in progress in this area. Does anyone = have any news of this? Is there any help that I could maybe give to the = group in this area. Any advice, help or pointers gladly received. Don Robinson ZL2QX ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE4C88.3F55BF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have built up a TAPR RTCM unit = from the kit=20 and am pleased with the performance. Thanks TAPR.
 
I am however interested in using = another ONCORE=20 (or similar) receiver and doing post corrections rather than real time. = I am=20 aware of Sams pages on the www but I would be interested in any = experience or=20 assistance anyone in the group can give - or even just some pointers to=20 information. I guess the ultimate would be a program that takes info = from both=20 the base and rover receiver and processes the info to give corrected = positions.=20 I am not looking for high accuracy (5 - 10 m) would be useable but more = would be=20 a bonus.
 
I notice in summer 98 Packet Status = Register the=20 Dr Thomas  Clark makes mention that there is some work in progress = in this=20 area. Does anyone have any news of this? Is there any help that I could = maybe=20 give to the group in this area.
 
Any advice, help or pointers gladly=20 received.
 
Don Robinson ZL2QX
 
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE4C88.3F55BF80-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 05:53:04 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA10827 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:53:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Kurt Poulsen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Sv: [Fwd: Sv: GPS performance] Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:46:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <001301be4c4e$89063cc0$2900a8c0@inet.dk.193.262.153.164> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id FAA10827 Hello again Dan That was quit some deviation, I have aparently not understood Your input. Hasve You encountered the difference between magnetic and true bearing, because 0.6 degree looks like that sort of deviation. Regards OZ7OU Kurt -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Dan Hinz Til: TAPR Special Interest Group Dato: lørdag, januar 30, 1999 05:02 Emne: [tacgps] [Fwd: Sv: GPS performance] >Kurt - >Thanks for the information. > >You indicated that I one can expect reasonable accuracy 95% of the time >and something less out to 600Meters, the other 5%. My problem is that >the position was off over 0.6 degrees which is over 36 Nautical Miles! >That seems like a hardware problem on my end, not a system problem. > >Thanks again, >Dan >W6LSN > > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 13:07:31 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06938 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:07:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:28:54 -0800 From: Dan Hinz MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] GPS errors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B34156.FF146A0D@ieee.org> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Bob et al. Thanks for all of the ideas. I believe I will call Garmin and ask about a new unit. To answer some of the questions posed; I don't have the signal strengths, but typically TAC32 reports them in a range of 25 to 35. I don't know how it determines those numbers as the raw data from the unit has them up in the 40's. The unit is a parallel receiver and can track up to 12 satellites (11 if using the 1pps output). I don't believe I have a problem with signal strength. I have almost a perfect view of the horizon. The horizon picture is nearly perfect down to the horizon. Then antenna is an amplified Garmin unit and is sitting on top of a metal chimney cap. All connections are with BNC or N and I have waterproofed all connections outside the house using coax seal. Then number in the previous message for satellites was the number tracked, not in view. The 0.6 degree difference I mentioned was in latitude, not in heading, so magnetic deviation is not a consideration. Does anyone know of a program/web site etc. that would allow one to input date, time, location and get a picture of how the satellites would have been arranged in the sky? My thought is that perhaps the satellites were all in, or nearly in, "a line" that was parallel with my latitude so that it there was very little differentiation. Personally, I think that's a long shot just because I did have 8 satellites in view. Thanks, Dan W6LSN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 13:20:59 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA07264 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:20:59 -0600 (CST) X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-Id: X-Sender: lylej@pop.azstarnet.com Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:17:22 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Lyle Johnson Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS errors In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990130121722.00930620@pop.azstarnet.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >Does anyone know of a program/web site etc. that would allow one to >input date, time, location and get a picture of how the satellites would >have been arranged in the sky? My thought is that perhaps the >satellites were all in, or nearly in, "a line" that was parallel with my >latitude so that it there was very little differentiation. Personally, >I think that's a long shot just because I did have 8 satellites in view. Dan, The Ashtech web site has Evaluate for free download. It provides a view of all spacecraft in the sky and does the usual NMEA message saving and replay. Enjoy, Lyle --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 17:37:28 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19929 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:37:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:40:56 -0700 x-sender: ebs@biophysics.lanl.gov From: Brooks Shera To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <199901302336.QAA30261@mailproxy.lanl.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I couple of months ago I became interested in postprocessing Oncore data also (had a little surveying problem and was too cheap to pay a professional and too lazy to build a DGPS station). Anyway I wrote some software that takes the binary data from 2 Oncore rcvrs (recorded to files) and does single difference post-processing. The resulting accuracy is at the 1-2 meter level. One receiver sits at home feeding its data to a PC, while the other travels around in my car feeding data to a notebook computer. A draw-back is that the data files can get large (maybe 1 Mb/hour). The good news is that I observe very few cycle-slips in the carrier phase as I drive around (however, I live where that aren't many trees taller than a man's head!). The good carrier phase data means that double-difference carrier-phase processing is possible, even tho the Oncore lacks the L2 frequency and P-code features that the survey-quality GPS receivers have. Just how good a job can be done with just the L1 phase and C/A code remains to be seen - I'm still working on it, and other folks may already know the answer. The noise level in the Oncore carrier phase measuring circuit is respectably low. Using one antenna, a splitter, and two receivers I measured 1.2 mm (!) rms phase noise by double differencing a pair of satellites (see Sam's page). It gives me some hope that accuracy at the few mm level might be possible if the two rcvrs aren't too far apart (a few miles). It's mainly a problem in mathematics. It's amusing to think of a couple of Oncores in the same league as $50,000 Trimble geodetic setup! Brooks --------------Don Robinson wrote------------------------------------------ >I am however interested in using another ONCORE (or similar) receiver and >doing post corrections rather than real time. I am aware of Sams pages on >the www but I would be interested in any experience or assistance anyone >in the group can give - or even just some pointers to information. I guess >the ultimate would be a program that takes info from both the base and >rover receiver and processes the info to give corrected positions. I am >not looking for high accuracy (5 - 10 m) would be useable but more would >be a bonus. > >I notice in summer 98 Packet Status Register the Dr Thomas Clark makes >mention that there is some work in progress in this area. Does anyone have >any news of this? Is there any help that I could maybe give to the group >in this area. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 19:15:17 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA22648 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:15:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:07:21 -0800 From: Steve Bennett Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] I got my Pods and I like 'em Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <36B3ACC9.371B@ricochet.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi I recived two GPS/INMARSAT antenna pods from afstar last night. After cobbling up a DC block/power tee I hooked the pod up to my oncore with 60 feet of coax and fired showtime up. All the avalable sat's locked with 20dB or better S/N. I am planning to set this thing up on my roof. The pod looks like it should drive the cable just fine. Joe from Afstar http://afstar.com/pod.html tells me these things where made to work with 24 volts sent up the coax center conductor but 18 volts will work. A DC block between the power tee and the reciver is required to keep the 24 volts on the coax from connecting with the 5 volts comming out of the oncore and causing smoke to be relesed from the oncore. I am a happy camper. The pods are sturdy looking and the two I got are fairly clean and both work. I ran showtime all night and saved the avarage position. I will move the antenna to the other side of the yard tonight and see how close the GPS and the tape measure match up, ah geek fun! The usual disclaimers apply, I'm just a happy customer Steve Bennett --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 22:12:22 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA26896 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:12:22 -0600 (CST) X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-Id: X-Sender: lylej@pop.azstarnet.com Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:44:08 -0700 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Lyle Johnson Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990130204408.00975d90@pop.azstarnet.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello Brooks! An outfit in Canada does post-processing using Oncores and routinely gets accuracies in the few mm range over short baselines. If you know how to do the math, and can teach the computer to do it, too, I suspect you'll win :-) Regards, Lyle >Just how good a job can be done with just the L1 phase and C/A code >remains to be seen - I'm still working on it, and other folks may >already know the answer. The noise level in the Oncore carrier phase >measuring circuit is respectably low. Using one antenna, a splitter, and >two >receivers I measured 1.2 mm (!) rms phase noise by double differencing a >pair of satellites (see Sam's page). It gives me some hope that accuracy >at the few mm level might be possible if the two rcvrs aren't too far >apart (a few miles). It's mainly a problem in mathematics. --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Jan 30 22:47:16 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28538 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:47:16 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 04:45:43 +0000 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS errors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <36B3DFF7.D4192377@clark.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dan -- let me try to answer a few of your questions: First -- the ~.5 degree = 30 NMi = 55 km errors you reported are definitely anamolous. I seem to recall from one of your messages that you were trying to use the GPS-25 in 2D mode (altitude-fixed). My first suggestion is that you repeat the experiment, releasing the receiver to do full 3-D fixes. If you have not saved a correct altitude (like you are still using the one from Rick's home that is the TAC-32 default, or if you happened to have a ft-vs-meters conversion error of ~1 km, you could induce horizontal position errors of tens of km in the Lat/Lon. > I don't have the signal strengths, but typically TAC32 reports them in a > range of 25 to 35. I don't know how it determines those numbers as the > raw data from the unit has them up in the 40's. There are two different sets of units reported for the S/N by different receivers. One is related to Eb/No and reflects the S/N obtained with the 50 Hz bandwidth needed to recover the 50 bit/sec GPS data message. A second common set of units is C/No, refering the recovered S/N to a 1 Hz bandwidth. Since these two ways of quoting S/N differ by a factor of 50, there is a 17 dB intrinsic difference between them. Motorola seems to have adopted the smaller Eb/No value with typical values ~30 dB. Garmin seems to have adopted the other definition. When I wrote my original SHOWTIME code, I determined that the Garmin minus Motorola difference was emirically more like 20 dB, and since SHOWTIME was originally written for the Motorola, I decided to subtract 20 dB so that the two receivers would produce comparable numbers (and so that the S/N display didn't have to be re-scaled in the software!). This decision was discussed in some length in the SHOWTIME documentation. I believe Rick followed my lead and did the same thing in TAC-32, but he will have to comment on whether he used the theoretical 17 dB or empirical 20 dB value for the Garmin normalization correction. With the Eb/No (Motorola) definition, let me comment on what these numbers mean. The GPS C/A "Gold" spreading code has a length of 1023 bits (1 msec of time at 1.023 Mb/s rate). Without going into a lot of Spread Spectrum theory, it can be shown that this length code leads to a GPS S/N dynamic range ~24 dB as the maximum permitted difference between the strongest an weakest satellites that can be used. If you go thru BPSK coding theory (and add a couple of dB for "real-world" implementation losses), you will find that your ability to recover a BPSK signal requires an Eb/No ~8 dB for the weak-signal end. Therefore, if the transmitters in the GPS constellation are properly sized, no GPS satellite should be stronger than ~(8+24) = 32 dB. And that's about the level you should see for a high-elevation satellite if things are working well. If your antenna is poor, or if you are in a high RFI environment, or if you have a lot of attenuation from tree leaves, you will still be able to work when the strongest signal is in the low 20's, but if it is weaker you will have problems. > Does anyone know of a program/web site etc. that would allow one to > input date, time, location and get a picture of how the satellites would > have been arranged in the sky? My thought is that perhaps the > satellites were all in, or nearly in, "a line" that was parallel with my > latitude so that it there was very little differentiation. Personally, > I think that's a long shot just because I did have 8 satellites in view. If you are using the newest versions of TAC-32 you will find that it includes a real-time az-el "radar plot" option so you can visualize where the satellites are located. This feature also lets you acquire a horizon mask sowing the lowest elevation that satellites are detected. TAC-32's "S-meter" bars can be sorted in PRN, S/N, Az or El order by clicking the radio button at the top of the appropriate column. I seem to recall from your earlier posting that your logs included the xDOP values. These numbers give you a good feeling for the "goodness" of the geometry. In general, if HDOP < 2, you should >>NEVER<< see horizontal errors bigger than ~200 meters (since you were logging in fractional degrees, this would be ~0.002 degrees. The conversion is that 1 deg of Latitude = 60 NMi = 111.11 km or 1 minute = 1 NMi = ~1850 meters. In Longitude, multiply these numbers by cos(Latitude) ). Hope this helped -- 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jan 31 02:02:41 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA12865 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:02:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Don Robinson" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:59:23 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002201be4cef$e9c8d3a0$323761cb@dons-desktop> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello Brooks (and anyone else interested), Thanks for your helpful reply. I probably need to obtain the MOTOROLA reference manual for the ONCORE and download some of the single difference code from Sams pages to get me started. Any idea if the Motorola manual is available on line? In reading through the info I do have on the ONCORE (ex TAPR with the DGPS kit) I note the ONCORE has an output for Psuedorange corrections - when at a known location. I wonder if I could use one receiver as a base and record this correction - then apply it to the rover recorded Psuedoranges to give me a corrected position. Like realtime correction mode - but delayed!! I also note there is a Input Psuedorange correction command. Can this be used to correct the rover? Is it only manual or can a file mode be used? Comments welcome. I will keep in touch and I welcome any input from you or others. Your reply certainly has started me on some positive thinking. Thanks Don Robinson -----Original Message----- From: Brooks Shera To: TAPR Special Interest Group Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 12:37 PM Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. > >I couple of months ago I became interested in postprocessing Oncore >data also (had a little surveying problem and was too cheap to pay a >professional and too lazy to build a DGPS station). ............ --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jan 31 06:17:40 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA27513 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:17:39 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: berta@relay.micronet.it Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:15:44 +0100 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Luca Bertagnolio Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990131131544.018312a0@relay.micronet.it> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello list, At 16.40 30/01/99 -0700, Brooks Shera wrote: > >I couple of months ago I became interested in postprocessing Oncore >data also (had a little surveying problem and was too cheap to pay a >professional and too lazy to build a DGPS station). Anyway I wrote >some software that takes the binary data from 2 Oncore rcvrs (recorded to >files) and does single difference post-processing. The resulting accuracy >is at the 1-2 meter level. I think I wrote an e-mail some time ago to this list asking if anyone was doing work on this, and I am very glad to read about this now. Please, let the list know more about this and any improvement you will do on this topic. Also, if it's possible, I wouldn't mind testing the software. Thanks, Luca IK2OVV Milan, Italy --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jan 31 08:43:19 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01059 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:43:19 -0600 (CST) From: Kenneth Lerman Message-Id: Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:35:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: lerman@lerman.nai.net (Kenneth Lerman) In-Reply-To: from "Brooks Shera" at Jan 30, 99 04:40:56 pm Content-Type: text List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <199901311435.AA29640@lerman.nai.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk So, Brooks, can I get a copy of your software? Ken > > > I couple of months ago I became interested in postprocessing Oncore > data also (had a little surveying problem and was too cheap to pay a > professional and too lazy to build a DGPS station). Anyway I wrote > some software that takes the binary data from 2 Oncore rcvrs (recorded to > files) and does single difference post-processing. The resulting accuracy > is at the 1-2 meter level. > > One receiver sits at home feeding its data to a PC, while the other > travels around in my car feeding data to a notebook computer. > A draw-back is that the data files can get large (maybe 1 Mb/hour). > > The good news is that I observe very few cycle-slips in the carrier > phase as I drive around (however, I live where that aren't many trees > taller than a man's head!). The good carrier phase data means that > double-difference carrier-phase processing is possible, even tho > the Oncore lacks the L2 frequency and P-code features that the > survey-quality GPS receivers have. > > Just how good a job can be done with just the L1 phase and C/A code > remains to be seen - I'm still working on it, and other folks may > already know the answer. The noise level in the Oncore carrier phase > measuring circuit is respectably low. Using one antenna, a splitter, and > two > receivers I measured 1.2 mm (!) rms phase noise by double differencing a > pair of satellites (see Sam's page). It gives me some hope that accuracy > at the few mm level might be possible if the two rcvrs aren't too far > apart (a few miles). It's mainly a problem in mathematics. > > It's amusing to think of a couple of Oncores in the same league as > $50,000 Trimble geodetic setup! > > Brooks > > --------------Don Robinson wrote------------------------------------------ > >I am however interested in using another ONCORE (or similar) receiver and > >doing post corrections rather than real time. I am aware of Sams pages on > >the www but I would be interested in any experience or assistance anyone > >in the group can give - or even just some pointers to information. I guess > >the ultimate would be a program that takes info from both the base and > >rover receiver and processes the info to give corrected positions. I am > >not looking for high accuracy (5 - 10 m) would be useable but more would > >be a bonus. > > > >I notice in summer 98 Packet Status Register the Dr Thomas Clark makes > >mention that there is some work in progress in this area. Does anyone have > >any news of this? Is there any help that I could maybe give to the group > >in this area. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: LERMAN@LERMAN.NAI.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > -- Kenneth Lerman Kenneth.Lerman@lerman.nai.net Systems Essentials Limited Fax: (203)426-9138 55 Main Street Voice: (203)426-4430 Newtown, CT 06470 http://w3.nai.net/~lerman PGP fingerprint = B1 66 29 FB CB 8C 6A 24 E1 DF B4 63 2C D6 5D AD --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jan 31 12:05:37 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09434 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:05:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:03:24 -0800 From: Dan Hinz MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] GPS errors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B49AEC.C9F47831@ieee.org> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Again to all thanks for the information. I tried the the trimble web site and it was exactly what I was after. It allows you to enter a date & time along with a location and it will provide you with a bunch of information about the GPS satellites. I used it to verify that the numbers logged by my receiver were pretty much in agreement with what would have been expected at the time of my anomoly. As an aside, the GPS receiver quit yesterday. I had to turn it off to reset it. I have restarted gathering data in the 3-D mode vice the 2-D mode in case I had entered a bad altitude. I don't think I did, as I used a seven day average, but it should prove interesting. Thanks for the info on signal strengths. 73, Dan, W6LSN --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Jan 31 12:56:43 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11763 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:56:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:56:05 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Gilligan X-Sender: rickg@spork.callamer.com To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: DGPs and post correction. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Don Robinson wrote: > Thanks for your helpful reply. I probably need to obtain the MOTOROLA > reference manual for the ONCORE and download some of the single difference > code from Sams pages to get me started. Any idea if the Motorola manual is > available on line? Try starting at: http://www.mot.com/ACCES/GPS/products/gpsprod.html They are all available in PDF in chapters. They are identical to the hard copy I purchased last year. The table of which receivers have which features is very handy. 73 Rick N6NL --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org